Did Jesus go to hell when he died?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Gup20, Aug 16, 2004.

  1. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe Jesus went to hell when he died. However, I believe also that he was the FIRST that death and hell could not hold. He was the FIRST risen from the dead.

    We had a discussion on this in another thread... but it was an interesting topic. Here is what I believe:

    I believe that all men (because of Adam's sin) are born into Sin. I believe that being a decendent of Adam makes you a sinner and that all decendents of Adam are bound to die and go to hell. I believe that all people do sin throughout their lives and therefore deserve their punishment in hell.

    I believe that all people from Adam to Jesus went to hell when they died, as there was no way for them to go to heaven until Jesus (remember... he is the 'way'). I believe that there was a special place in Hell known as "Abraham's bosom" that was reserved from the firey torment of Hell, but that all went to hell nonetheless. I believe that the animal sacrifices of the old testament were symbolic of Jesus, and that in believing on them, that 'made a way' for those who died before Jesus to believe in Jesus thereby making a way for those who were believers to go to heaven having never known Jesus himself, but believing in him anyway. I believe that Jesus went to hell when he died. I believe he preached to those in hell, and some were saved. I believe that he took the keys to hell away from Satan and went to heaven. At his resurrection, those who were dead and believed in Him (even those who believed in the symbolic Jesus of animal sacrifices) went to heaven as well (they had been in hell up to the point of Jesus' resurrection).

    What say all of you? Is this scriptural? Accurate? Inaccurate? Of course I have scriptures to back up all of these beliefs and will share them to defend my position in time.
     
  2. Mercury

    Mercury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, just to clarify, you believe Jesus was born with original sin?

    Do you believe this hell that Jesus went to is the same hell (or part of the same hell) that is called the lake of fire?
     
  3. dean198

    dean198
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Gup, I think I agree with you, only I recently heard a message which challenged the idea that Jesus emptied Hades of the righteous, but I still think that is probably true, and that he took them to heaven, though I am open to the idea that believers still go to Abraham's bosom. Jesus went to Hades, but he did not suffer.
     
  4. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    I couldn't find the phrase "original Sin" in the Bible. This may be another example of "man's ideas" instead of God's Word. You will have to show me from the Bible where this phrase originates for me to answer that question.

    No. Hell gets thrown into the Lake of Fire in the future when this world is cleansed with fire. I think of Hell like a 'holding tank' for those awaiting the end time judgment. Up until Jesus came, Hell was the only place to go when you died - it is/was separation from God. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY JESUS!! When those who are not in Christ die, they are 'held captive' there to await final judgment. Those who's names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life in the Final Judgement will be thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity.
     
  5. MEE

    MEE
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/me3.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would say that all of this comes from this scripture.

    Luke 16:26
    26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    Go to the book of Luke and read the whole story!

    MEE [​IMG]
     
  6. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    I am conflicted... I think that Hell (hades) is separation from God. We know that God forsook Jesus on the cross - they were indeed separated.

    We know that Death is the punishment for Sin, but is Hell? Or is it simply that Satan holds those who have experienced death captive in hell? For Jesus to 'pay the price' for us... he would have had to experienced all that we would experience - death. He would have had to taken the FULL punishment in our place. If that involves Hell, then yes, Jesus suffered in Hell. If Hell is simply a place to go to await Judgement to the eternal torment of the Lake of Fire, then perhaps Jesus did not suffer in Hell. I don't really know. I do know that men sufffer in a firey torment in Hell - remember the story of Lazarus:

    Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    Clearly people are tormented by fire in Hades. From Luke 16:23, we can see that 'in hell' is conferred to Abraham as well. However Abraham was not tormented in his part of hell. Those who died in belief were carried to Abraham's bosom by angels.
     
  7. dean198

    dean198
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Jesus became a curse for us on the cross, because the Law says that everyone hanged on a tree is accursed. But then he said "It is finished," and they brought him down from the tree because he was dead. Then by the Spirit he went to Hades, to the part called Abraham's bosom, or also called Paradise. This is where the repentant thief went also. There is a part of Hades for punishment, but not all of it - not Abraham's bosom. That is why the bible never says that Jesus was punished there, and Jesus himself expected to go to Paradise.


    Wow, good questions. As far as I can tell, death is the punishment for breaking the law of righteousness - for sinning. All those who did not repent go to the Lake of Fire, which is called Gehenna. I tend to believe that Gehenna will burn up and destroy everything, rather than that it will be a place of everlasting conscious torment, though you can make a good case for both from the scriptures. The gospel of John says that those who do not believe the gospel are condemned already, and I believe that condemnation refers to the lake of fire.


    The bible never says that Jesus 'paid the price for us'. It says he died as a ransom for our sins. His death is the ransom. He did not suffer in our place - he suffered for us, or on our behalf. We could never have redeemed ourself, so like you say, if he took our punishment, he would need to suffer in hell - eternally, not temporarily as you suggest. But he didn't. His death did something we could never do - redeem us from the curse of the law. Jesus did not suffer the wrath of God, did not made a ransom to the devil, or no other man made scheme - his death delivered us from the righteous demands of the law, and his resurrection made new life and life with God possible for all those who believe in him.
    Dean
     
  8. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    0
    THE LIE - Gen 3:4 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    The first lie ever told by Satan in this world, is still preached, and even by those who claim to be Christ's.

    THE TRUTH - Gen 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Apart from the grace of God in and through his Son, there would be no human life on this planet. This is why Christ plainly told us when he was here as one of us, that without Him there is no life.

    I Jn 5:11-12 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    Lets not forget the most famous new testament scriptures.

    John 3:14-17 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Whoever accepts Christ as their personal Savior will have eternal life. Whoever does not, will perish. The scripture is clear. Whoever accepts Him will not perish, but, that is to the contrary, they will receive eternal life. Isn't it obvious that the opposite of eternal life, is no life. Those who receive eternal life, will have it only because they have attached themselves to Him who alone has immortality. As the following scripture conclusively states.

    1 Tim 6:15-16 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Apart from God, there is no life. This is why there is a book of life. All those who accept Christ will have their names in the book of life. All those who do not will not have their names in this book. Can you think of a good reason that the names of the unsaved will not be in the book of life? I can. It is because they will not have life. They will be destroyed in the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    Rev 20:12-15 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Eternal fire has eternal results. The scriptures show the consequence of eternal fire by way of example. Those things which have suffered the effects of eternal fire, are no longer in existence.

    Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    The above cities, and the people in them, are no longer. They are no longer burning, for they are no more. What more could one ask for to see and know the effects of eternal fire. Of course there is much more scriptural evidence to this effect.

    Mal 4:1-3 1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
    2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
    3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    2 Pet 2:9-12 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
    10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
    11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    As a conclusion to the matter, I leave you with the following scriptures. These scriptures are a dual prophecy concerning the king of tyrus and Satan. It is obvious from their content, that they refer to the devil himself, his fall from heaven, and his ultimate end. If Satan himself is to be no more, then why would any of the other wicked that have followed him?


    Ezek 28:12-22 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Bye for now. Y.B.in C. Keith
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    #1. There is no place in all of scripture that says that "Abraham's bosom" is the name of "a part of hell" or that it is the name given to "paradise".

    #2. There is no place in all of scripture that says that "Paradise was once in hell".

    #3. There is no place in all of scripture that describes Abaraham or Moses "in fiery hell" afater they die.


    Having said that - I do agree thw sheol - is the grave and is sometimes translated hell, and obviously both good and bad people - end up in the grave.

    THere is a school of thought that would "slap wheels on paradise and scoot it about the cosmos", but I do not agree with that particular school of thinking.

    Paul says that Paradise is in the 3rd heaven. We have no indication it was ever anywhere else.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. MEE

    MEE
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/me3.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Luke 16:26
    26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    --------------

    [8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    Surely, someone can put this together and see it for what it says.

    MEE [​IMG]
     
  11. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG]

    1st Peter 3-18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


    I beleive that Jesus made a visit to hell, and preached to the spirits who were there, to tell them who He was, what He had done, and give them a chanch to accept Him so that they could go to heaven.

    It was of course a one time thing, so that everyone that had ever lived had a chanch to accept Jesus as Savior.

    Whether you say it was hades, or hell, or sheol, or paradise,etc, it doesn't matter. What He did is what matters.

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam,


    [​IMG]
     
  12. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a lot here...

    1. Paul states that Jesus descended into the lower parts... (The Place of the Dead)

    There are actually two or three 'Hells' spoken of in Scripture..

    The Place of the Righteous Dead - Many believe this formed the basis for the Catholic Belief in Purgatory...

    But, Scripturally this place no longer exists because Jesus led them with Him to Heaven... And, now we are absent from the body and present with the Lord...

    No second chances... No holding cells...


    Then there is the Place of the Unrighteous Dead... Another place speaking of this area... Speaks of Hell having enlarged her bounds... Not sure, myself, if that good exegesis or not. [​IMG]

    Then there is the eternal lake of fire...


    So, IMHO, yes Jesus went to Hell... But, not as a prisoner... As a liberator...

    I, personally, do not believe Jesus 'suffered' from original sin... Biblically this sin is usually transmitted through the lineage of the Human Father...

    Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit... No Sin lineage from the Father's Side...

    And, Scripture clearly states they He knew no sin... This is pretty exclusive...

    And, what sacrifice could Jesus have offered for our sins if His own blood was tainted by 'Original Sin'?
     
  13. Eric B

    Eric B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,806
    Likes Received:
    2
    Similar to 1Pet.3:18-20 is ch. 4:3-6 —"For the time of life which is past is enough for us to have worked out the will of the nations, having gone on in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, parties, carousings, and abominable idolatries. In these things they are surprised, that you are not running with them into the same excess of riot, blaspheming. But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For to this end the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit." Many have combined this with Christ's burial, and have posited a whole scenario of Christ "descending into Hell", which must have had two sections, "paradise" for the righteous, and a place of suffering for the wicked; and that Christ preached to its inhabitants, and even bringing the righteous (such as Noah) back up with him, to Heaven. Some parts of this are now rejected by various interpreters, but still these passages do appear as "proofs" of that. Others see the reference to Noah as referring to fallen angels, who existed back then as well as now. But fallen angels are not "sometimes" disobedient, and the other angels are never disobedient. It is useless to "preach" to either.
    In the context, above we see Paul is discussing unsaved people now (in his time, and of course it applies to our time as well), who taunt Christians for not living like them anymore. It was this same type of people in the "world" in Noah's time, who mocked as he built his ark to escape the coming judgment, and all soon perished. It was not those people in Noah's time who were being preached to by Christ, (unless you see Christ preaching to them through Noah) but just a comparison of the wickedness. The point is, Christ's message is being offered to these people in the world today, enslaved in the prison of sin and condemnation. This passage even seems to be a reference to (fulfilment of) the messianic prophecy in Isaiah 42:1-7 "Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not fail nor be discouraged until He has set judgment in the earth; and the coasts shall wait for His law. So says God, the LORD He who created the heavens and stretched them out, spreading out the earth and its offspring; He who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it. I the LORD have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for a covenant of the people, for a Light to the Gentiles; to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, those who sit in darkness out of the prison house".
    This is even recognized in chain references. Sin is many times over referenced as both "prison" and "death".

    Hanegraaf, in Christianity in Crisis, uses this passage as a proof text of Christ descending to Hades to preach to the righteous in "paradise", but then in his own Christian Research Journal (12-97 p.24,25) Luke Wilson, answering Mormon doctrine of the salvation of the dead (a logical possibility with common interpretation of the passage) shatters the idea. The passage suggests this happened after Christ was put to death, and then made alive. And he ultimately shows from the Greek that this passage is describing Christ's PROCLAMATION of victory which "took place in the context of this journey". (though he takes the view that it was to fallen angels; though after the resurrection). In the notes he adds :"I do not believe 1 Pet.3:18 ff can properly be understood in connection with the doctrine of Christ's descent into Hades during the time His body lay in the tomb".

    Eph.4:8.9 is talking about His burial and resurrection, and the redemption from the curse of sin it brought us. It says not a thing about carrying souls up to heaven (or "Abraham's bosom"), or carrying a whole section of Hades itself up to Heaven.
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible doesn't say that. It says he went to Hades when he died (many English translations translate the Hades to hell). Hades is what the OT Jews referred to as the "place of the dead", called Sheol in Hebrew (Hades is the Greek word for Sheol). It was where dead souls went to rest after the body had died. It was neither Heaven nor Hell as we know it. The place that we commonly think of as "Hell" is actually Gehenna in the NT.
     
  15. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,071
    Likes Received:
    101
    John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 16, Section 10
     
  16. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Bob -

    Regarding #1:

    Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    That would seem that Abraham was indeed in hell... but in a separate part of hell. That while the rich man was in a firey torment, Abrahma was not, nor was lazarus who had water the rich man wanted. Keep in mind -

    Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    So Abraham could not have come to the Father except after Jesus' sacrifice. So he was in hell until that time. Though we know he was not tormented as the rich man was.

    We know Jesus was the FIRST to be raised from hell...

    1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

    So they had to go somewhere when they died... waiting for Jesus to come. They can't go to heaven... so they went somewhere - to Abraham's bosom. Also note that this wasn't a common 'parable' of Jesus. He didn't use names of people in any of his parables. This was something that had actually happened, and not a mere story.

    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    Eh... "many bodies of the saints which slept arose ... after his resurrection". Clearly, they were stuck and bound to death and hell. What Jesus did freed them from that.
     
  17. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    So...

    Calvin is where the 'crazies' got the 'Jesus Died Spiritually' thing?

    I say this because it appears that Calvin is saying that Jesus had to suffer Spiritually...

    My understanding is that to suffer Spiritually in Hell you are suffering a Spiritual Death...

    And, Abraham's Bosom was a place of comfort...

    And, the tormented side could not pass from the side of torment to the side of comfort...

    I am having a little trouble with this line of thought because for jesus to have suffered he would have had to have been under the control of tormentors...

    IMHO, This would place Him in a 'weakened' position...

    This is quite contrary to the image of Him leading captivity captive as a deliverer...

    I am at a loss... Here... Anyone want to try to explain it to me? Without out quoting Calvin, that is...
     
  18. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    I am under the impression that 'spiritual death' is separation from God. Those in Hell were separated from God, yet there are those who are in comfort in Abraham's bosom and those who are in torment.

    Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Clearly, David was in Hell. But his soul did not remain there after the resurrection of Christ. w00t!

    So, because we can see that there are two regions of hell... those who are in abraham's bosom and those who are tormented... if we take spiritual death to mean separation from God, then any of those in all of hell qualify. However, that still does not answer the question of how much or if Jesus suffered in his time in hell.

    I would like to see what scripture might say about it.

    Personally I think that he probably went there, and took the keys from Satan - meaning HE was in control of who went where and HE was free to leave. But would he have to participate in the torment of Hell as he did with death, be found blameless and therefore worthy to take authority over it?
     
  19. dean198

    dean198
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    My explanation of this is simple...Calvin was extremely mistaken. He spent too much time studying canon law instead of studying the scriptures, and his legal mind got it all out of whack. Christ said he was going to paradise, not to torment. He paid the price at the cross, contrary to Calvin whose view of the atonement reflects Anselm of Canterbury, and not the apostles.
    Dean
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    That would seem that Abraham was indeed in hell... but in a separate part of hell.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Actually it appears from the text of chapter 16 that they are in two different places and that those in one place can not cross over to those in the other.

    In fact it is apparent that "he is receving his good things here" is the contrast. Good things in place vs bad things in the other.

    Only one of the places is described as hell, and as torment, and as burning and flames. The other place is ONLY described as the place were God's people sit in Abraham's lap - and Abraham is "apparently" in charge.

    Again I would not draw that conclusion. Jesus is in fact the eternal "God the Son" so coming to the Father through the Son was always the deal - starting with the fall of Adam.

    One Gospel in all ages (Gal 1:6-11)

    #1. The text never says Jesus was "raised from hell".

    #2. Jesus Himself raised Lazarus (and others). So also did other OT saints/prophets raise the dead. So also did NT apostles raise people from the dead.

    Jesus is the first (or first in order of primacy) of those to be raised from the dead AND to go bodily into heaven.

    This is the problem - the text says "rise from the dead" and we know that Lazarus and others were raised from the dead by Christ even BEFORE He died on the cross.

    You have made this - "go to heaven at death" instead of "rise from the dead". However the text does not support this idea "Jesus was the first to go to heaven at death" idea.

    It clearly says "Rise from the dead"

    In the parable of Luke 16 - Abraham is in charge of the dead saints - and they abide (or rest) in his lap. He is the one that seems to hold the keys and of course - this story would go over very well with the Jewish leaders of Christ's day.

    Recall that in Luke 16 the entire discussion arises over the fact that His Jewish listeners are hostile to what He is saying. He needs to find some common ground from which to base the force of the parable.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

Share This Page

Loading...