Did John McCain Really Cause the USS Forrestal Fire?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bible-boy, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy
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  2. LeBuick

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    There are links that go both ways...

    http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/35321150/navy-releases-mccains-records

     
  3. Bible-boy

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    Did you bother to read the first hand accounts of what actually happened in the links I provided? The rocket that started the whole thing did not come from an F-4 that was behind McCain. It came from a F-4 that was on the opposite side of the carrier and facing inward toward the center. The rocket hit McCain's plane in front of the cockpit. How could that happen if the F-4 that had the rocket mis-fire was directly behind McCain's plane? It would not have. It would have went right up his afterburner. Come use your head. The story you are quoting is blowing smoke. I gave you links from the Forrestal Crew Association with first hand testimony, I also gave you the link to the navy.mil official account.

    Note your link above does not say that McCain's Navy records conclusively show that he was "directly responsible." The author of that article added that part. He did not quote the actual record as having contained such a charge. Then look at the "crew member" sources. Who are these "crew members" the article fails to identify them.

    Now look at the links I provided they tell you exactly who said what relating to the event. Your article is simply a political hit piece that has been quoted by a bunch of other websites etc.

    Notice also that the article you linked tries to make it look like McCain was somehow responsible for the particular bombs that were being used on the planes. As far as I know, and any Navy carrier vet please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but the pilots don't make the call on how their planes are armed.
     
    #4 Bible-boy, Aug 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2008
  4. LeBuick

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    No, I didn't really read the links because it's a known fact the missile didn't come from his plane. I didn't say it did. The story is his plane did was “wet-started” which shoots flames from the tailpipe and is what set the incident off. That part is not disputed. The question is was McCain horsing around and did the “wet-started” to scare a sailor on the deck (he was known for stunts like that) or did his A-4E “wet-started” on its own which was a known problem of the A-4E.
     
  5. Bible-boy

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    Apparently you did not even read what I wrote about the event based on what I read at the links I provided. So I'll summarize it again for you.

    The rocket that started the whole thing came from a F-4 that was parked on the opposite side of the carrier from McCain's plane. That F-4 was facing the center of the ship. Its misfired rocket hit McCain's plane in front of his cockpit. That could not happen if the rocket came from a F-4 that was sitting directly behind McCain's plane. If it had come from behind it would have gone right up McCains afterburner. Use your head and think about it.

    And I never said that you claimed that the rocket came from McCain's plane. Please read a bit more carefully.
     
    #6 Bible-boy, Aug 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2008
  6. LeBuick

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    This time I did read it but I know the story a different way as I explained. The part about the wet-start came from the navy documents if I remember. I guess I have some googling to do...
     
  7. LeBuick

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  8. Bible-boy

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    The story you know has been contrived to make McCain look guilty of something he is not responsible for doing.

    The part about the "wet start" came from a biased news article that you linked. They quoted some stuff from McCain's official Navy Record and then proceeded to go on about something the McCain camp does not want to you know about the fire in the Forrestal. However, the author of the article added that stuff. He was not quoting from Navy Documents when he introduced that material.

    Go back and re-read my entire post number 4 and see what I am talking about.
     
    #9 Bible-boy, Sep 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2008
  9. LeBuick

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    Looks like the official navy stuff is not coming up on google. Imagine that. I will have to conceded for missing official evidence... :laugh: :wavey:
     
  10. LeBuick

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    No, actually I knew of this story long before McCain ran for president. I've been knowing that story since I was a kid and the Internet didn't exist (born in 62). There is more to it as it goes into his Dad being the Admiral and covering up the event and had McCain totally cleared of negligence. The fact that he was up on charges of negligence makes your version suspicious...
     
  11. Bible-boy

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    I provided links to the USS Forrestal's Crew Association webiste and the Navy.mil official account of the story. Please provide the reference to McCain's official Navy Records that show he was "on charges of negligence" related to this event.
     
  12. Bible-boy

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    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/07/mccains-navy-records-detail-commendations/

    No mention of any charges in his official Navy Records at the above link.

    http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/mccain_post_card_word%5B1%5D.pdf

    Note that the link above is an anti-McCain site and it does not say that McCain was responsible or negligent in the USS Forrestal event.

    http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm

    Another anti-McCain site that does not claim that McCain was responsible for or negligent in the USS Forrestal event.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24518450/

    No mention here either.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-klein/mccains-secret-questionab_b_107409.html

    No mention here in this anti-McCain article either.
     
  13. LeBuick

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    Like I said before, I conceded even though I have known this story way before he was running for office. His records were recently released missing much of the file. It basically had his metals (28 metals for 20 hours of combat. Your second link above) and not much else. Everyone who viewed his records found they were inconsistent and obviously incomplete. Why if all was great?

    If you want to continue to play this came I can find as many links with different views http://liberalscumbuster.wordpress....d-20-planes-and-almost-sunk-the-uss-forestal/

    The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.

    Here is my point, if McCain was on the other side of the ship like your links imply, why are we having this conversation almost 40 years later. There were hundreds of men on that ship but only one seems to come up in regard to this incident. If it was as these links are saying the Forestall fire would not have gone down in history with McCain name associated except in the list of Sailors on board. This is not the case. Instead, everything you see on the fire has his name included one way or another. Isn't that one of those things that makes you go HHhhmm??

    I won't be bullied into recanting my comment no matter how many links you post. I know what I know and obviously the Internet has mysteriously changed it's tune about the incident. That's ok, his Admiral dad covered it up when it happened and now his aids have made sure the negative facts are not easy to find. One thing I find strange because it's easy to find is his nickname of "songbird" while he was a POW. I would think they would hide that before the Forestall incident. Everyone knows he killed hundreds of American sailors while clowning around but we also know that was the kind of youth he was.
     
  14. dragonfly

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    Yes, McCain was probably involved in this incident, after all, he proved that he was not a very good pilot, as he lost five aircraft while in the Service.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Really? Everyone knows this? I have never heard this story so obviously you are wrong, but that's beside the point. How did he kill "hundreds of American sailors"?
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    Great logic here. What in the world??????
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    ummmm.....yea :rolleyes:
     
  18. dragonfly

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    Did McCain lose five aircraft during his Naval career or didn't he?
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    "Where is that darn airplane? I know I left it around here somewhere!:laugh:
     

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