Did Judas Resist Grace ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Bro. Curtis, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    Help me out.

    He knew Jesus was the Son of God. He also recognized that he himself was a sinner.

    Did he not trust Christ to forgive ?
     
  2. steaver

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    He even witnessed all the miracles, even took part in casting out demons himself having Jesus granting him the power to do so.

    He was drawn, chosen by God Himself, to be a disciple. But God chose him knowing full well Judas would ultimately reject Jesus Christ as Messiah.

    God knows all the choices men will make, this does not equate to God making them choose one way or the other.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    He was filled with remorse after the betrayal. Did he really reject him as the Messiah ? The Son of God ?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    So! What does Scripture say?

    John 6:70, 71
    70. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
    71. He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

    John 17:12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    Matthew 26:20-25
    20. Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
    21. And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
    22. And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
    23. And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
    24. The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
    25. Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.


    **************************************
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    Grace reigns more effectively than death does Rom 5:17 so could he resist death?
     
  6. kyredneck

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    Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, Who did eat of my bread, Hath lifted up his heel against me. Ps 41:9

    12 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; Then I could have borne it: Neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; Then I would have hid myself from him:
    13 But it was thou, a man mine equal, My companion, and my familiar friend. Ps 55

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
    70Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
    71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6
     
    #6 kyredneck, Feb 28, 2015
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  7. steaver

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    Excellent work!! :thumbs:
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

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    Forgive the simplicity of my questions.

    What does Christ mean by "devil" ?
     
  9. kyredneck

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    The simplest questions are the best ones.

    See Jn 8:44,47
     
  10. OldRegular

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    He spoke rough at times didn't He. He was rough at times. {John 2:15, Matthew 21:12} And some people want to picture Him as effeminate, floating over the ground, His feet never getting dirty? Before He started His ministry Jesus Christ was a working man. After starting His ministry He never had a place to lay His head {Matthew 8:20; Luke 9:58} and heretics like the Word Faith blasphemers claim he was rich.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    So then, do we have a problem with Judas being of the devil, yet having the power to cast out demons himself ?
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    If Jesus was among us, he'd be having a lot of his posts edited.
     
  13. kyredneck

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    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mt 7

    Kind of a conundrum to me, as was Baalam and a couple other characters.

    He was a thief, he was their treasurer and stole money from the bag.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Feb 28, 2015
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  14. Bro. Curtis

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    One to me, as well.

    I guess you know where I'm going with this. Trying to reconcile Judas with this irresistible grace thing, that I'm having a hard time with…...
     
  15. just-want-peace

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    Hey, I'm riding this same train!
    Sorta like Churchill said, (more or less:wavey:)"---a mystery wrapped in an enigma inside a conundrum---".
    Probably everyone of us are going to be shamed at the way we sloppily disected His word when we can see & understand through His lens.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    He did what he wanted to do in the end, as he chose to stay in the darkness of his own sins and nature, thus he was the one destined to betray jesus, in order to fulfill the OT propehcies...

    God NEVER intended for Judas to get saved, as he was chosen due to what he already wanted to do!
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    So you can recognize Jesus as the Son of God, know and be convicted of your sinful state, and still not be saved.

    Is this correct ?
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    Only believers are the object of irresitable grace, reprobates and goats resist the grace of God into second death.


    1689-

    4. Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit,

    yet not being effectually drawn by the Father,


    they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved;


    be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess. ( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    Or can use Jesus Himself, when it stated that Judas was of the Devil from the very beginning!
     
  20. kyredneck

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    Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2:19
     

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