Did Paul know it all when he started his ministry?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Dec 10, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I ask myself wether it is possible that just like humans which make mistakes and which change their theology because they learn new things, Paul also might not have had the 100% correct theology in the beginning. What if Paul wrote about stuff and later on realized that he was wrong? Then we have wrong stuff in the bible and think that it's correct.
    For example Paul says in 2.Corinthians that he is as good as the other apostles but in another book he says that he's the smallest of them or something like that. This means he changed his mind. What if Paul also changed his mind about other things? Why should he always have been right? There is no christian pastor who is always right, we all make mistakes. The bible also says that our insight is patchwork. Then why should Paul always have been right?
    I mean christians say that if you have 2 verses in the bible which seem to contradict each other then we don't understand them correctly but what if they are simply making everything fit together somehow and simply find some explanations to make everything fit together? When you're clever enough you can make everything somehow fit together but this doesn't mean it's correct.
     
  2. dispen4ever

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    All scripture is God-breathed. :thumbs: I'm sooooo glad that it is!
     
  3. xdisciplex

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    But what if Paul also mixed it with his own opinion?
     
  4. dispen4ever

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    Two Horses ~ Author Unknown

    Just up the road from my home is a field with two horses in it. From a distance, each looks like every other horse. But if you stop your car, or are walking by you will notice something quite amazing.

    Looking into the eyes of one horse will disclose that he is blind.

    His owner has chosen not to have him put down, but has made a good home for him. This alone is amazing.

    If nearby and listening, you will hear the sound of a bell. Looking around for the source of the sound, you will see that it comes from the smaller horse in the field. It lets her blind friend know where she is, so he can follow her. As you stand and watch these two friends, you'll see how she is always checking on him, and that he will listen for her bell and then slowly walk to where she is, trusting that she will not lead him astray. When she returns to the shelter of the barn each evening, she stops occasionally and looks back, making sure her friend isn't too far behind to hear the bell.

    Like the owner of these two horses, God does not throw us away just because we are not perfect or because we have problems or challenges. He watches over us and even brings others into our lives to help us when we are in need.

    Sometimes we are the blind horse being guided by the little ringing bell of those who God places in our lives. Other times we are the guide horse, helping others see.

    Good friends are like this. You don't always see them, but you know they are there.

    Please listen for my bell and I'll listen for yours.

    :thumbs:
     
  5. El_Guero

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    Ahhhh

    But, there in lies xdx's dilemma . . . he does not know the sound of God's bells . . . and is too confused to figure out which ones to listen to.

    So, he finds himself listening to the wrong bells and getting distracted and confused.

    :type:
     
  6. dispen4ever

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    2 Cor 1:13-14

    13For we write you nothing else but simply what you can read and understand [there is no double meaning to what we say], and I hope that you will become thoroughly acquainted [with [e]divine things] and know and understand [them] accurately and well to the end,

    14[Just] as you have [already] partially known and understood and acknowledged us and recognized that you can [honestly] be proud of us, even as we [can be proud] of you on the day of our Lord Jesus.

    :type:
     
  7. El_Guero

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    AMEN!!!

    :thumbs:

     
  8. Claudia_T

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    I dont think he is confused at all. I think he knows exactly what he is doing.
     
  9. xdisciplex

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    I do? What am I doing?
    Are you once again entertaining these bizarre conspiracy theories? :confused:
    Maybe this is the disadvantage of simply being honest and writing what I think instead of playing the souvereign christian who has no questions and no problems and who knows everything and who understands everything because the bible is sooo easy to understand. Yeah. And because the bible is sooooo easy to understand there is perfect harmony in this forum and all people agree with each other. :1_grouphug:
     
    #9 xdisciplex, Dec 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2006
  10. dispen4ever

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    YEARS ago in university I commented that there are as many psychological theories as there are psychologists. The same can be said of church denominations. They can't all be doctrinally perfect (a carbon copy of what God intended when He wrote the bible). They can be doctrinally in error. As someone said, most major on minors.

    The simple truth is that God reveals himself to each individual who studies his word. It is fine to have bible study groups, as long as they do not rise to the authority of God's written word. It is fine to have Christian pastor-teachers, as long as they do not proclaim a NEW revelation in addition to what is written between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. There are NO new revelations!

    Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies, 7th Dayers, word-faith, name it and claim it, represent just a few of those who have been misled by those who violate Paul's warning about bringing "another gospel" into the church. The SBC, the Methodists, the Lutherans, the Presbyterians (it's a long list) are not perfect. Roman Catholicism is an aberration.

    One Truth, one essential Truth, one critical understanding, is that God is perfect and that he sent us his perfect word. It is not within his design to deceive us. It is within his design for us to meet him in his word. We meet him, he unfolds himself to us there. We meet him there humbly, eager to listen. We have read, and we understand, that ALL scripture is spiritually discerned. The mind, the will, the emotions, and, as someone said, our mental meanderings, take a back seat to meeting God one-on-one, patiently. We need not weigh every word he presents to us. The mind longs to do that. We bathe in spiritual revelation, not glorifying ourselves in the process, but magnifying his love, his patience, his grace. Speak to me spiritually, Lord Jesus.

    :saint: :flower: :love2:
     
  11. Not_hard_to_find

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    Where Paul did, he so stated. See First Corinthians 7:12.
     
  12. xdisciplex

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    But maybe the bible is simply too hard to understand when christians cannot even agree on doctrine. Either the bible is too complicated or the humans are too dumb. Both options aren't really good.
     
  13. Claudia_T

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    Jn:7:17: If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.


    It all depends upon your willingness to know and do the truth.


    Jn:3:20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


    Its really that simple.


    Claudia
     
  14. bound

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    Hi Claudia_T,

    We are saved by grace through faith. Not by our willingness or ability to know or do anything.

    We can't ascent to salvation anymore than we can establish our salvation through works.

    You are really coming across as some kind of apologist and don't appear to seriously take anything which we are saying to you for reflection.

    Is this the case?
     
  15. Amy.G

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    Actually, neither are options, just your opinion. The Bible is not compicated to the spiritual man.
    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    Humans are not dumb. We were created in the image of God.
    You have a spiritual problem that only the Holy Spirit can cure. Go to God.
     
  16. xdisciplex

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    @ Amy

    Well, maybe I am simply not spiritual? Maybe I am simply too carnal. Who knows?
    But this doesn't help me. This whole spiritual man stuff is totally abstract. I cannot work with this. How do I address my spiritual man? Shall I talk to him and ask him why he doesn't understand the bible or what?

    And after all if everything simply has to be discerned and then it's absolutely clear then why do christians not agree on all things? It's not so easy otherwise everybody would have the same understanding of the bible.
     
  17. J. Jump

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    That's not a true statement at all. There are MANY theologians and great students of Scripture that would tell you quite differently. There are some parts of the Bible that are very clear and unmistakeable and then there are others that take a lot and I mean a lot of work to understand. And then there are portions that we just simply won't ever have time to get to, that's how full the Bible is.

    Because pride is a huge problem for mankind. You have many "educated" folks that don't want to have to admit that they believed the wrong thing. You have many pastors that don't want to have to admit that they have believed and therefore taught the wrong thing, so they continue believing what they will because it would hurt their pride too much to say otherwise.

    You have others that have been taught one thing all of their life and to admit that they have believed the wrong thing would mean that they would have to say that pastor that they love was wrong or that Sunday School teacher they love so much was wrong.

    There are a number of different things. Believing some Truth brings about more suffering and persecution and people don't want that. There are just a myriad of things that you can say about that question.

    But what we can't do is let it bring us down to a point that we don't want to learn anymore, because if that happens then the enemy has won.

    It seems that you are desperately seeking a how to manual for understanding Scripture and unfortunately there just isn't one. It's just a matter of studying Scripture and praying for understanding, knowing that as you ask it will be granted to you. That doesn't mean you will understand everything you read all in one sitting, but that God will grant you understanding in the portions that He deems fitting for you.

    Does that make sense? Like I have said you have discovered some Truths in Scripture that a lot of people don't want to deal with and basically just shove under the rug. So you should be encouraged at what you are seeing not discouraged that there are differing opinions. Not all people are going to agree 100% of the time. It's just not going to happen.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    Well then, it's not all God-breathed is it? You have two options: It is all God breathed, or Paul mixed his own opinion in with it.

    It is true that Paul learned over time, but he did not write anything that was not inspired by God. Therefore, his learning did not take place in areas that he had written Scripture about.

    Someone mentioned 1 Cor 7:12. Paul's words there do not mean that he was giving his opinion. It means that he wasn't quoting Christ. He was however still inspired.
     
  19. Amy.G

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    XDX, The Bible is a spiritual book. It can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. I will continue to tell you that you have to work this out with God. You are never going to get all the answers here on a forum. Until you are ready to take your confusion to God with humililty and a sincere heart, nothing is going to change. That's how is works for all of us. I pray that you will do this.:praying:
     
  20. Amy.G

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    JJ, I know you have a hard time agreeing with me on ANYTHING, but the Bible is God's word to ALL of us. Even children and those with average IQ's. Yes, there are difficult passages, but anyone can learn how to live a Godly life and enjoy the peace of Christ by reading the Bible without ever understanding the most difficult parts. And the truth is that none of us will EVER understand everything this side of heaven. XDX needs the Holy Spirit to help him understand. The Bible can be complicated if that's all you see, but God intended it be simple enough that even a little child can understand, but the natural man just ain't gonna get it.
     

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