Featured Did the Millinium start at Ascension of jesus?

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Of course Jesus spoke of His Kingdom and the Disciples sitting upon the thrones of judgement in:

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


Who will they judge? Verse 28 is clear the twelve tribes of Israel. That hasn't happened and isn't happening today.

 

As that infamous dispensationalist says:you must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

I see no mention of an earthly Messianic kingdom! I see mention in verse 33 above of an eternal kingdom, not 1000 years.

Which throne is Jesus Christ sitting on: The throne of His Glory or the throne of David?

 

Well let's see the Throne of His glory has yet to take place. Where is Christ today?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places

Colosians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

and 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?


Seems Christ is never said to be sitting on His Throne of Glory or any other throne in Heaven but is by His ?Father until The Father makes His enemies His footstool.

Look at Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

and Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Everything says He is set or set down on the right hand of the Throne of God

Notice

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Now we see the Lamb on His Throne, this is after the Great White Throne Judgement after the renovation of the earth and the New Jerusalem has come down and is setting upon the new earth. Then we see the lamb on His Throne.


Of course Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

According to verse 9 this Kingdom is upon the earth, the camp of the Saints in the beloved city, verse 4 says they are living and reigning with Christ their camp in verse 9 again says it is up on the breadth of the earth in the beloved city. This takes place after they have ruled 1000 years. Scripture makes it clear.

 

I suspect Jesus Christ is on the Throne of His Glory at the present. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ requests of the Father:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So it would seem that since Scripture speaks of Him sitting at the right hand of God the Father He is likely sitting in Glory!

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

 

Scripture supports it, early church leaders believed it and taught it some just simply fail to believe it. This of course was predicted in scripture.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Where is the promise of His coming in scripture of Course and O.T. and new say He will reign on David's thrine as the Messiah of Israel and all nations will worship Him.

 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Seems really clear Christ will come from Heaven to Earth, set up His Kingdom on Earth never does Revelation say and He judged them and returned to Heaven to set up His Kingdom, it says thrones were set up on earth and they ruled with Christ. When the Millinium (1000) is ended then satan is loosed and goes out to the four corners of the Earth, not of heaven and musters an army to encompas the camp of the Saints which is all on earth and the millenial Kingdom is set up after the Trib and the armies with Christ coming from heaven are clothed in fine linen clean and white just as the bride is to be adorned.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Seems as if the Bride is already in Heaven when Christ returns, seems like a pre-trib, pre-mil snatching away of the Bride prior to the second coming to set up His Kingdome with His Bride reigning with Him.

 

just wondering what verses you are thinking about?

 

I believe

[1] in the visible return of Jesus Christ with power and great glory [Matthew 24:30]

[2] at which time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead [John 5:28, 29]

[3] followed by the Great White Throne judgment and [Revelation 20:11]

[4] death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:14]

[5] whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:15; 21:8]

[6] those whose names are written in the Book of Life chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world will enjoy the presence of the Triune God eternally. Revelation 21:3, 7]

[7] the eternal reign of the Triune God in the New Heavens and New Earth with all those redeemed by Jesus Christ. [Revelation 21:1-6]

 

The early Church fathers were apparently premillennial but they were not pre-trib. that is the invention of john Darby about 1830.

I repeat my earlier post.

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

 

Where do you see the belivers of this age receiving their rewards as seen in:

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Paul told the Believers at Rome in

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Now the term judgement seat "Paristemi" to stand beside, "Bema" a step, pace, the space which a foot covers, a foot-breath
a raised place mounted by steps
a platform, tribune
of the official seat of a judge
of the judgment seat of Christ
Herod built a structure resembling a throne at Caesarea, from which he viewed the games and made speeches to the people

So Romans 14:10 we will stand stand beside the step of the judge, we believers.

While in Revelation 20:11 we have "Megas Leukos Thronos" Great White Throne and definitely


two different events just by the Greek Terms. So where do you see 1Corithians 3 and Romans 14 occuring?

 

I will state yet again Christ promise that those who overcome, as a believer in Christ I am an overcomer, will not go thru the time of testing that is coming upon the earth. Christ made the Church a promise in Rev. 3:10 that He would keep us out of the season or a definite moment in time of affliction or trouble. Seems real clear that for those who overcome Christ would keep us from the time of trouble coming upon the earth. Rev. 3:10.

 

Jesus Christ also promised

John 16:33, KJV These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22, KJV Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:35, KJV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 12:12, KJV Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2 Corinthians 1:4, KJV Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Revelation 1:9, KJV I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 7:14, KJV And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I realize you will say that the Church is gone in Revelation 7:14 but you are entitled to be wrong. that is simply another dispensational error. jesus christ tells us in John 5:28, 29 that there is one general resurrection of all the dead.

Furthermore, how do you justify applying Revelation 3:10 to the all Christians?

 

I see one Judgment seat of Jesus Christ, the great White Throne Judgment!

 

Revmac....sorry i had missed this one, just found it now;
lets take a look....

[QUOTE6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.][/QUOTE]

In verse 10 it speaks of......AND IN THAT DAY.....
The Holy Spirit had paul write this for us in romans;15

paul quotes it both as the abrahamic covenant being fulfilled,and directly quotes from isa 11....here in romans 15....

Rev mac.....I think he quotes more than 14 verses in romans 9-15 and says they are happening now:thumbs:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

What is a "millinium"?