Did the new Covenant Continue the Old One, or Replace it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    was it a contiunation of it, just expanded out to include/graft in gentiles, or was the new a "brand new deal' between God and man?
     
  2. preachinjesus

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    It fulfilled it.
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    so you would see it being same Covenant, just grafting gentiles in with jews into salvation thru jesus then?
     
  4. convicted1

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    The Law is no longer in effect to us, the believer. The Law abides on the sinners, in that it can only condemn mankind, and never justify.

    Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
     
  5. AresMan

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    It replaced it and fulfilled it. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of all the types and shadows of the ceremonial law. No tithing or literal sabbaths in the New Covenant.

    We observe the Sabbath by entering into Christ's rest (Heb 4).
    Abraham completed the tithe through his tithe to Melchizedek of which Jesus Christ is priest forever and interceding in heaven.
    All the feasts typified Christ, and He fulfilled them. The only exception is that He is now our Passover and we celebrate the Lord's Supper in lieu of the Passover as a remembrance of what Christ has done until He appears the second time.

    The Old Covenant was with a primarily Jewish nation-state.
    The New Covenant is with a diaspora of Jews and Gentiles equal before God throughout the world.

    The Old Covenant had the forward-looking sign of circumcision on infants that symbolized the expectation of the circumcision of the heart.
    The New Covenant has the backward-looking sign of baptism on believers that symbolizes the washing of regeneration.

    The Old Covenant consisted of both regenerates and unregenerates.
    The New Covenant consists only of regenerates: "and they shall all know me from the least to the greatest."
     
  6. convicted1

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    LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  7. Thomas Helwys

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    That's very good!
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    So are we still under the law, or now under grace?

    As per how we now live?

    Do we see the law as Reformed would, or as Dispy would?
     
  9. RLBosley

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    Precisely. :applause:
     
  10. kyredneck

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    There's nothing 'new' about any of the spiritual tenets of the 'new' covenant, it's new only because the first has been made old:

    In that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old.......Heb 13:13

    God doesn't change, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. The Spirit has always blown where He wills, God has never been a respecter of persons, and in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, has been acceptable to him.

    The first covenant was ADDED (casting a shadow of the good things of the Everlasting Covenant behind it):

    What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made.....Gal 3:19,

    And then it was removed:

    And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Heb 12:7

    These 'new' things of the New Covenant are 'new' only because they were mysteries that had not hitherto before been revealed. The 'new' is actually not 'new', it is revealed mystery.

    However, the 'Israel of God' has been immensely 'enlarged' since the removal of the old and the revealing of the new:

    Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hosea 1:10

    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10:16

    having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:15

    22 And no man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine perisheth, and the skins: but they put new wine into fresh wine-skins. Mark 2

    27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4

    1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah.
    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations; spare not: lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes.
    3 For thou shalt spread aboard on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall possess the nations, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. Isa 54

    For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

    where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

    There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

    For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

    26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.
    27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be *the coming [presence YLT] of the Son of man . Mt 24

    (And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, Lo, there! Lo, here! go not away, nor follow after them, for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day. Lu 17:22-24)

    And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. v 3

    For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14

    So shall they fear the name of Jehovah from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun; for he will come as a rushing stream, which the breath of Jehovah driveth. Isa 59:19

    For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the Gentiles, saith Jehovah of hosts. Mal 1:11

    After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:9

    And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah`s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Isa 2:2

    Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy king cometh unto thee; he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, even upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem; and the battle bow shall be cut off; and he shall speak peace unto the nations: and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth. Zech 9:9-10

    All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto Jehovah; And all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. Ps 22:27

    Jehovah will be terrible unto them; for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the nations. Zeph 2:11

    but in very deed, as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with the glory of Jehovah; Nu 14:21

    At that time will I bring you in, and at that time will I gather you; for I will make you a name and a praise among all the peoples of the earth, when I bring back your captivity before your eyes, saith Jehovah. Zeph 3:11

    But thanks be unto God, who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place. 2 Cor 2:14

    And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God: and they shall abide; for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. Micah 5:4

    They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that standeth for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious. Isa 11:9-10
     
    #10 kyredneck, Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2013
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Very good KYRed, I made a very similar argument with a Jersey Pastor who whole heartedly believe in NC Theology.

    I do profess that you have this nailed! Thanks.:thumbs:
     
  12. mactx

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    When Jesus said it is finished, he was not speaking of his earthly life. He was talking about the old law.
    He reiterated only 9 of the 10 commandments and none of the other 630 laws the Jews were under.

    It is finished, it is done. Christ began a new church, with Peter's Faith as its corner stone.
     
  13. kyredneck

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    This is Baptist only section. FYI, Christ Himself is the cornerstone, not Peter or Peter's faith.

    16 therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner -stone of sure foundation: he that believeth shall not be in haste.
    17 And I will make justice the line, and righteousness the plummet; and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding-place. Isa 28

    5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
    6 Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. 1 Pet 2

    19 So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
    20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;
    21 in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;
    22 in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit. Eph 2
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Christ kep and fulfilled the law for us saved by him, the new Covenant rendered the old one obsolete, as per hebrews, so we have new in Christ, old things pass away, all things brand new!

    the law served it purposes, but now under a newere beter Covenant!
     
  15. mactx

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    What this has to do with Baptist or what ever I do not know.
    However here is what Christ said when he set up the church.
    Niv:
    KJV:
    ESV:
    So I misspoke. Faith is the foundation on which our Christian life is built.
    Even though the steeple I have worshiped under is baptist the message is basic to being a Christian of any religious background.
     
  16. Herald

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    What do you mean by "still under the law? Reformed Theology does not teach that we are under the law. Salvation is of grace.

    The Law of Moses has three parts: ceremonial, judicial, and moral. Both the ceremonial and judicial parts have been fulfilled an abrogated in Christ. The moral law of God is binding on all men. The 10 commandments is a perfect example of God's moral law. But the moral law cannot save, it can only condemn because no one can keep it.
     
  17. Van

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    False dicotomy

    Many times folks present us with an either/or question, when elements of both are true. God's redemption plan had more than one element. The children of the promise, believers under the Old Covenant, gained approval through faith in God as He had revealed Himself during their lifetime. When they died, they were taken to Abraham's bosom, a place of comfort but they were still held separate from God in heaven. When Christ died, he brought those "captives" to heaven.

    Thus Christ's death ushered in a superior Covenant, the New Covenant in His blood. Whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    But the unfulfilled promises of the Old Covenant were not nullified, they will be kept and applied to the "children of the promise." Those saved under the new Covenant are grafted in to the children of the promise, and so they, too, will receive those promises.

    Hebrews and Galatians 3 spells this all out.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    hold to reformed sotierology, so I did mispost that!

    Should have asked do we view the law has still binding in the sense that we regulate our lives by its provisions, or that in this Church age, we walk in and by the HS Himself mainly?
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    All ten commandments are repeated, not just 9..

    9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,
     
  20. mactx

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    You are kidding right?
    Hebrews 4 is speaking of entering into God's rest.
    Not a physical sabbath rest for today.
    You can not pluck 1 verse from a sequence and say this is my rule to live with today. Unless you read it in context there is no understanding.

    This section of the chapter is dealing with entering into God's rest. Those who do not follow God will not enter into that rest.

    Everyone here now can choose to have a sabbath day of rest. This speaks of a spiritual thing not a physical one.
     

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