Did this Jr High School coach cheat?

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Salty, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    The coach had his quarterback make a daring play.
    but do you think it was cheating?

    Watch this youtube video (its about 5 min long, but you can get the gist of it in the first 1 minute or so - also there is a 30 commercial at the top)


    If you were a coach, would you call the play?
    Would you want your son to run a play like this?

    Salty
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
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    Trick plays have been around for a long, long, long time in football. Those players on defense learned a valuable lesson going forward in their football careers - when the ball moves you move.

    Arkansas used a trick play at Auburn a few years ago by having a short player hide in a crouch behind the lineman as they broke the huddle and hopped a few feet to get positioned next to the quarterback. The play didn't work for a touchdown but it did go for a good gain.
     
  3. Bobby Hamilton

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    Wish I could see the video at work. Someone give me a short explanation?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
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    The defense was off sides - Ref paced off 5 yards.
    On the sideline the coach said it should have been 10 yards. The Quarterback told his team (with the defense listening) I will mark off 5 more yards. The center did a "side snap" the QB took the ball, started walking the 5 paces - the defense just watched -and when the Quarterback cleared the defense he ran some 40-50 yards for the touchdown! :tongue3: :thumbs:

    Note: the offense knew about the fake play - they acted as though they did not know - which kept the defense guard down:saint:

    The game ended in a 6-6 tie
     
  5. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
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    What's wrong with the play? An unconventional snap, but as far as I know, there's no rule against it. He caught the defense napping. I see nothing wrong here.
     
  6. Salty

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    One caller on the radio show said that is was deplorable that the team had to go to such depths if they were not as good as the other team to play the "correct" way.
     
  7. Alcott

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    I have an old Texas Football magazine, from 1969, which has an article about old trick plays, mostly from the 1920's, written by sportswriter and cartoonist Bill McClanahan, and he also has several carttons illustrating the plays. One he describes was much like the point of the video here. An offensive team was penalized 15 yards for holding. The team lines up for the next play, the TB says, "Wait a minute, Mr. Referee; 15 yards for holding? Wie, holding is just 5 yards! Give me the ball!" So the center tosses him the ball, he steps off 10 yards as the defense just watches, then he takes off. There was no rule that the center had to snap the ball to a back then.

    If you remember the "fumblerooskie" play pulled by Nebraska in the 1984 Orange Bowl and by Oklahoma in the 1988 Orange Bowl, that differs only slightly from another play McClanahan talks about-- the "hidden ball play." Again, with no rule that the center had to snap the ball between his legs to a back, he would hand the ball to a guard beside him, who would squat down on it, while the rest of the team took off in one direction. Except for the opposite side end (or tackle), who would come around and take the ball from the guard and run around the vacated end. The fumblerooskie play differs only in that the center did have to put the ball between his legs, so he put it on the ground and to one side, with the QB's help, instead of handing it to a guard. One reason the center has to snap the ball was to cancel that kind of a trick play, so the fumblerooskie was the updated method to keep it legal. Later, of course, that play became illegal, too-- an offense is not allowed to deliberately put the ball on the ground intending to deceive.

    One more I'll talk about, which if not illegal now is almost impossible-- though perhaps not at some high school competition-- was the "dead end" play. During a play with the action on the opposite side of the field, an end would go down and stay down, making sure he was behind the new scrimmage, and maybe having to 'sneak up' to be within a yard of the line. He was hoping the defense would not even notice him until the play began, which obviously was a pass play to him, very wide open. That sometimes worked in the 20's and later, because the fields many teams played on were not nearly as well kept as most have been since WWII. The grass was often tall enough to conceal a player from the other side of the field; and hash marks were closer to the side, too, so he was further away from the rest of the center of interest.
     
  8. ccrobinson

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    If it wasn't cheating in some way, then I don't see what the problem is.
     
  9. Pastor Kyle

    Pastor Kyle
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    By Football rules, this was not cheating. He used a side snap which is perfectly legal. I like what another poster said (sorry I don't remember who it was) it is a good lesson, when the ball moves you move.
    As part of a defense you know that since sometimes you cannot hear the quarterback say hike, you moce when the ball moves.

    I think the problem people have is that it was done in middle school. Nobody had this problem when Boise St used the Statue of Liberty play against Oklahaoma in 2006 Fiesta Bowl...Now that trickery:thumbs:
     
  10. Bob Alkire

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    I'm with you.

    Off subject.

    I also agree with Dr. John Rawlings. too. I've had a few friends that worked for him way back when.
     
  11. Steven2006

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    This raises the question. In this day and age, if a defensive player would have gone full speed and hit the QB hard, would a) People be complaining about his hitting a defenseless QB? b) Would the ref's have thrown a flag for the same thing?
     
  12. John Toppass

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    The play in and of itself did not break any rules. I do have a problem with the coach holding up a football on the sidelines in order not only to call a play but to distract Jr Hi players on the other team. Let the students play the game. The adults already had their chance when they were students. By the way the team that ran the trick play lost.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty
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    No, the game was tied, but the other team won the championship on a tie-breaker system
     

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