Differentiating being born-again from the Holy Spirit baptism

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Browner, Dec 13, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    This information is critical for helping believers understand what will be happening in the last days. It is not what the churches teach for various reasons (explanation available).

    We say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE ... John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16

    The following “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this is the
    ONLY place in Scripture where this unification “baptism” is mentioned:
    “For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
    … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)
    “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation” (2 Cor 5:17)

    This can happen to a person without him/her even realizing it (witness me and Billy Graham!)

    Jesus was the first to receive the special baptism where the Holy Spirit comes UPON
    “When He had been (water) baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting UPON Him.” (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32)

    Peter spoke of the results of Jesus’ baptism
    Acts 10:38 • “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power”
    Father God authenticated the Truth of Jesus’ gospel with power (signs and wonders).

    John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who anoints people with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33

    Jesus promised this baptism with the Holy Spirit to the first believers
    Luke 24:49 • “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you;
    but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
    Acts 1:4-8 • “He commanded them … to wait for the Promise of the Father … ‘you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now … you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you’ ”


    Peter said Jesus also received power when the Spirit came UPON Him (Acts 10:38).
    The translators mistakenly assume that Jesus means the Promise (capital “P”) is the Holy Spirit, but really Jesus is referring to this special baptism (see the small “p” in Acts 2:33 and 2:38).

    On the Day of Pentecost
    Acts 2:3-4 • “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave utterance.”
    A few words (at least) spoken in tongues is the evidence of receiving this special baptism.

    Peter explains what had just happened
    Acts 2:33 • “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”
    Notice the small “p” (here and below) refer to the baptism
    (and not the Holy Spirit).

    Peter explains how people can have the same experience
    Acts 2:38 • “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
    No mention at all up to this point about water baptism.

    Both “the promise” and “the gift” refer to this baptism with the Holy Spirit re: the Day of Pentecost. Peter, at this point, had NO under-standing of the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE of believers. It is not mentioned anywhere in Acts to my knowledge about the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    These Samarians had believed and had been water baptized
    Acts 8:14-19 • “Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen UPON none of them. They had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also …”
    Do you know anyone who exhibited spiritual power at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit?

    Peter is involved in the first experience of Gentiles receiving the gift of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
    Acts 10:44-48 • “the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard the word. And the Jews who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out ON the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.”
    These believers were in-filled with the Holy Spirit at the same time as they were Spirit-baptized. And to follow along after this experience, here we have the first mention of water baptism.

    Peter recalls his experience with the Gentiles (above)
    Acts 11:15 • “… the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as UPON us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ”

    Paul helps disciples at Ephesus receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit
    Acts 19:5-6 • “… they were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hand upon them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied ..."

    In the 7 passages where it is specifically mentioned that the Holy Spirit
    came UPON believers, these other items are also mentioned:
    the promise, the gift, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, power, filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, prophecy.
    These things are not involved …
    when believers receive the Holy Spirit INSIDE and are born-again.
     
    #1 Browner, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    You do realise that pentacost wa sa one time never to be repeated experience, as a fulfillment of the OT prophecies concerning Jesus, and that the book of Acts recorded a transistion period in early church, so that ALL have experience the true baptism in the Holy Spirit, as there is ONLY one event, saved and sealed, and yet many refillings?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    What I realize from BOTH Scripture and
    the confirmation of spiritual experience
    that you have been bamboozled.

    7 verses teach that the Holy Spirit
    comes INSIDE when one first believes.
    7 verses teach that the Holy Spirit
    comes UPON when one receives
    the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
     
    #3 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  4. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    So, okay, TODAY Satan is the one
    who is performing signs and wonders
    when Jesus' precious gospel is being
    preached throughout the world.

    GOD's Plan of Salvation from the beginning
    has ALWAYS been to confirm the Truth
    of Jesus' gospel (good news) with
    signs and wonders following!

    But, Satan bamboozled men into putting
    the kibosh on God's original Plan.
    Men who were NOT called into God's ministry
    and who were NOT given any spiritual gifts ...
    insisted on running the early churches,
    and we ended up with the RCC and EOC,
    and then mucho later ... the Protestant churches.

    Man's free-will reigns supreme!
    God does not over-ride it ... because
    He didn't create no robots here, hear?
     
  5. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    365
    Man's free will trumps God's? Hmmm - tell that to Pharoah.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    Is this some kind of joke? I see no lol.
    Man's free will trumps God's means God will not over-ride it.
    Man's free will is KING.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    365
    I'd LOVE to see the verse that says that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    For arguments sake, Do you think pharaoh Wanted to Obey God?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    Interesting, terribly wrong perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    365
    I don't think we will know that - because God hardened his heart.
     
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    LOL...play fair!
     
  12. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    Could it be possible that God knew what *would* harden his heart, therefore Pharaoh's reaction was no more than God allowing pharaoh's will to be actively part of God's Plan?
     
  13. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Of course pharaoh didn't want to obey God, the lost are hostile toward and at enmity with God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    What about balaam or Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus?
     
  15. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Let's first establish that you believe Scriptures depiction of the lost as hostile toward God and at enmity with Him then we can talk.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff
    Expand Collapse
    Fellow Servant

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    88
    Colossians 1:21
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    None of this has anything whatsoever to do with the OP.
     
  18. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    Good News!
    You can actually hope that Jesus Himself
    will give you this baptism of anointing!
    But, you must be open to receiving it,
    and not be hindered by years of false teaching against it.
    God talks a lot about UNBELIEF, and this applies to believers also!
    Jesus invites you to ASK, SEEK, and KNOCK (Matthew 7).
    And don't forget about the persistent widow!

    Happy New Year! ...
    But, you're in for one hell of a ride in 2016 and 2017.
    The USA will become a totally different place!
     
  19. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    They are all 'as the rest' Eph. 2:3, and;

    What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, Romans 3:9

    But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22

    Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:8

    ...unless God calls them and saves them they are eternally damned.
     
  20. Browner

    Browner
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why doesn't the resident self-proclaimed "theologian"
    address the OP?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...