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Discontented Pastors

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 18, 2005.

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  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    With their churches? No. With the "status quo".

    Or so says John Piper. "Non-leaders have inertia that causes them to settle in and makes them very hard to move off of dead center. Leaders have a hankering to change, to [/b]move[/b], to reach out, to grow, and to take a group or an institution to new dimensions of ministry.

    They have the spirit of Paul, who said in Phil. 3:13, "Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal of the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Leaders are always very goal-oriented people.

    God's history of redemption is not finished. The church is shot through with imperfections, lost sheep are still not in the fold, needs of every sort in the world are unmet, sin infects the saints. It is unthinkable that we should be content with things the way they are in a fallen world and an imperfect church. Therefore, God has been pleased to put a holy restlessness into some of his people, and those people will very likely be the leaders."

    Okay. Discussion:
     
    #1 Dr. Bob, Dec 18, 2005
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    General agreement [​IMG]
    I'm thinking most will agree with Piper on this. Differences come in the practical outworking of it. My idea of progress for a church is to become more and more like the New Testament ideal.
     
    #2 rlvaughn, Dec 18, 2005
  3. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    I agree with Piper here.

    The sad part that I see is that many pastors allow this discontentment with the status quo to fall over into discontentment with their church.
     
    #3 PastorSBC1303, Dec 18, 2005
  4. MatthewHenry

    MatthewHenry New Member

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    I couldn't agree more. [​IMG]

    Any Pastor that is content. Is in Danger. IMHO. :eek:

    MH
     
    #4 MatthewHenry, Dec 18, 2005
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Why shouldn't I be content doing God's will (feeding the flock He has given me)? Why try to "grow" - assume numbers - and take my people to new dimensions of ministry??

    I want to take them to a deeper RELATIONSHIP with God, not more "ministries". Big problem of our churches is that pastors develop PROGRAMS and then the people feel "spiritual" because they are involved in a gajillion ministries.

    But their relationship with God and personal growth is anemic.
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Dec 18, 2005
  6. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    I heartily agree. I ahve seen too many content to carry on "business as usual".

    Accepting the "same old, same old" because "it's the way it's always been done" just grates on my nerves.

    Maybe it's because I'm a Baby Buster, or just my mental makeup, but a Christian, and a pastor especially, should always be moving, looking, striving for any means to further the kingdom of God.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #6 Trotter, Dec 19, 2005
  7. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I measure the growth of a person when they begin to share their faith and then begin to disciple someone else and then watch that person they are discipling grow.
     
    #7 gb93433, Dec 19, 2005
  8. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I couldn't agree more. It all depends upon what you base your contentment upon.
     
    #8 Hope of Glory, Dec 19, 2005
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Of course, the Lord DID put a whole book in the Bible about numbers.... ;)
     
    #9 John of Japan, Dec 19, 2005
  10. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    The Lord did also say: Matt. 16.18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

    I might be mistaken but this seems to be what Dr. Bob is getting at. Allow Him to do the building while the pastor does that which He is told to do.

    Not to mean you aren't looking for ways to improve the ministry, but the groaning and grunting to get numbers seems to be ..... well anyway ;)
     
    #10 exscentric, Dec 19, 2005
  11. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    BINGO!!!
     
    #11 blackbird, Dec 19, 2005
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Jesus vs Piper

    "I will give you rest" vs "I will give you restlessness."
     
    #12 Aaron, Dec 19, 2005
  13. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Aaron you are comparing 2 different issues.
     
    #13 PastorSBC1303, Dec 19, 2005
  14. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Piper nailed this one. [​IMG]
     
    #14 All about Grace, Dec 19, 2005
  15. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Dr. Bob, if by "to take a group or an institution to new dimensions of ministry", etc. Piper meant developing new programs and gimics, I don't agree with him. I took it more as understanding that people and institutions are not perfect and we should always be desirous to better serve the Lord - not just studying about what new thing we can come up with. Maybe I read into it what I already believed.
     
    #15 rlvaughn, Dec 19, 2005
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    It is hard to ascertain WHAT John Piper was aiming at. But I just visited his church in October and saw it was in the midst of developing program after program in the ministry.

    Granted, his preaching and careful exposition of the Word SHOULD make his church members some of the strongest Christians on earth and thus could be referring to THAT as his idea of "growth".
     
    #16 Dr. Bob, Dec 19, 2005
  17. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Visioneers simply see what is and what should be...visionary leaders take people from where they are to where they need to be. I agree with Piper in the fact a true leader must be leading people to a different plane. That takes many different forms according to the giftedness and passions of the leader.
     
    #17 All about Grace, Dec 19, 2005
  18. MikeinGhana

    MikeinGhana New Member

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    Programs are only mehods that are used to carry out Biblical principles. Not all programs are helpful in doing this. Some are. I do not think we should see a demon under every rock here. There are some who have the attitude that everything churches do is bad these days. It is a different world with different needs. Yes, the world still needs a clear and effective gospel witness. Its just that the way in which we do effect this witness might change. Lets not criticize everything because it is different.
     
    #18 MikeinGhana, Dec 20, 2005
  19. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    It is not about the visions or passions of the leader but about the commands of God (Mt. 28:19,20). That must be our single focus.
     
    #19 gb93433, Dec 20, 2005
  20. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian Active Member

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    Perhaps be content where you are, but not content with your spiritual state. You should always strive to walk closer to God and to help your people walk closer to God.
     
    #20 Brother Ian, Dec 20, 2005
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