Discord

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is calvinist that do see the open door of the Gospel and whosoever may enter.

    They will not fight against the scripture.

    But some even if God came down from heaven and said God loved the world they wouldn't believe Him.

    They have been causing discord amoung the believers for so long for no reason.

    Accourding to them God is going to save the elect of God and we can't do nothing about. Then we have nothing to worry about and this discord they have ben sowing along side us hasn't done nothing but cause problems.

    If they are wrong and God does love the world and whosoever can believe. That whosoever is whosoever and all is all, and people are not comming because of thier wrong message, then thier blood will be on thier hands.
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. I'm a five-point convinced Calvinist and along with myself and all other well-bred Calvinists on BB your statements are totally inaccurate.

    2. Either these statement reflect lack of understand of what true Calvinism is or they are meant as sadistic strawman arguments to feed your accusation of discord against Calvinists.

    3. The Doctrines of Grace are so sweet. Just ask Jonathan Edwards, John Bunyan, George Whitefiled, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Adoniram Judson and countless others who had a passion to save souls.
     
    #2 TCGreek, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2007
  3. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    The doctrines of grace are sweeter than anyhing I can imagine! I am so glad God did not simply "offer" me salvation and depend upon my choice.

    Any doctrines contrary to grace by nature create create fear, stress, resentment and discord. Just look at the legalistic and works-based doctrines that aim to place man back under the burdens from which grace set us free! These people preach fear, and ignore the verses that assure us that we are NOT in bondage again to fear, and that the perfect love of God drives out all fear! No, thank you. I will take the doctrines of grace over any works or legalism-based doctrines.
     
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is exactly why participating in Calvin-free will debates is about as useful as a hampster turning a wheel.

    Has anyone ever noticed, half of the threads, despite their appearance of different titles, carry the agenda of both sides?

    Hasn't it dawned on any of you super highly educated scholars that you are not going to change anyone's mind?

    These are the facts:
    God is sovereign.
    Within that sovereignty, man has free will as God allows and has ordained.
    Neither you posters or any other human being understands the mind of God.
    You are going to change no one's mind.
    You will not know for sure until eternity, then will not care.
    Your silly threads cause nothing but discord and accomplish nothing.

    If anyone wonders why we have the Catholic Church, the various Orthodox churches, hundreds of Protestant churches, and some weird off shoots that dont even resemble Christianity anymore, a mere 2000 years after the Church was in one accord, with one Spirit in the Book of Acts, then look at the nonsense that goes on within these threads, and this is just one major faith. Multiply that by centuries and there is your answer.

    Education, thinking you are right, and your opinion does not equate to Biblical truth.
     
    #4 saturneptune, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2007
  5. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, I have noticed, so thanks for the compliment!!! :laugh:
     
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    5- point calvinist

    I can be a five point calvinist and still believe in what God convinced me of in my youth.

    That God loved the world that He sent His Son and whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    I agree with the scriptual 5-points and with that truth. I agree with 5-points until the gospel is preached and then whosoever can come.

    A calvinist will not disagree with scripture, or try to change it to thier liking.

    2 Corinthians 5:16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

    1 Corinthians 8:
    9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

    Ezekiel 3:
    18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [Or in] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.

    20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

    James 5:
    19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
     
    #6 psalms109:31, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2007
  7. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Amen. Well-said. :thumbsup: I think there are some, and I pray not the author here, just want to attack.
     
  8. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Over the years, my pastors have been God-honoring, Bible-preaching, with a zeal for evangelism and missions. Some have been Calvinists, some not.

    Most of the non-Calvinists I have known in my Christian lifetime have been God-honoring, inerrantist, holding a high view of scripture. I would not accuse any of them of holding a "devilish" doctrine.

    As a Calvinist who believes in a sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient God; as one who desires to glorify God in worship, in witnessing and in ministry; as one who is grateful for God's mercy in hauling me out of the miry clay and setting my feet on the solid Rock, as one who is grateful for God's electing grace and love; as one who believes that Jesus' death on the cross actually secured my salvation, thus making him worthy of my worship and obedience; as one who conntributed nothing to my salvation--if what I believe is devilish, then words have lost their meaning and civil discourse is no longer possible on this board.
     
  9. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    We must remember that to study Calvinism-----is to study something that is a little bit less than inerrant, inspired, and also a little bit less than infallable!
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    BB , Calvinism is the substance of biblical teaching .
     
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure, but that sounds like a warped version of Hebrews 11:1 that says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped fro, the evidence of things not seen."

    I agree with Calvinism, and believe he was a man used by God. However, do I think of that the way I do the Bible, inerrent, no, I don't. Those who do, it is merely an opinion, not Biblical truth.

    Those who take it to this level, (and free will on the other side) are those who cause the holy crusade of discord in these threads.
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obviously, I disagree, but your comment is something we can honestly debate without rancor, and is a far cry from labeling it as devilish.
     
  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe I am missing something. When did ps 109 use the word "devilish?" If he did not, maybe this proves my point. Or maybe I missed it.
     
  14. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    So, Tom!!! You're willing to debate Calvin's work as infallable, inerrant, and inspired???

    Great day in the morning!!! Now I've heard everything!!! Calvinists go on like Calvin is Jesus Christ reincarnate!! I can't believe anyone would think to place all of their confidence in one man's work of theology!!!
     
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Not this silly calumny again... *sigh*
     
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    So, you're a 5 point Calvinist ?
     
  17. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    scriptual

    I believe in the scripture that the calvinist used, but not always thier understanding.

    I know how wicked we all are and we will not come to God on our own. That is why we are sent out to reach them with the Gospel and in the Gospel God loved the world that He sent His and that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. We do have good news for the world.

    If men does not come when the Gospel is preached, it is not because of God, because as the scripture teaches God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. So it is because of them.

    It is Jesus words that is Spirit and life and that comes from the Father that draws us, without His word we have no life.

    Calvinist are completely right about a man who does not have the words of Jesus and we are sent out to reach them. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
     
  18. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, no, no, erase, erase, erase. I mis-spoke, let me clarify.

    I believe the doctrines of grace are correct and biblical, a conclusion I have drawn by a study of the inspired, inerrant scriptures. But my interpretations of those scriptures are by a fallible human being, subject to error. So are Calvin's writings.

    When I wrote this:
    my mind was thinking one thing and my fingers were typing something else.

    Actually, my mind was probably a total blank
     
  19. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dance classes are open folks. We are teaching the side step.
    [​IMG]
     
    #19 saturneptune, Aug 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2007
  20. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, I don't quite see that Scripture the way you do. And the true Calvinist doesn't see that the way you do either. I see that Scripture as stating that "whosoever believes in Him" will not perish precisely because he has eternal life, which is why he believes. You see it, (correct me if I am wrong) as meaning one can only not perish if one believes because only then, if he believes, can he have eternal life.
    And again, the tension in the Scripture is not caused by the Scripture itself but by the way men interpret the Scripture. For example, in the Scripture you cited there is much debate amongst Calvinists and Arminians.

    The Arminians insist that God wants ALL men (as in mankind in totality) to be saved. The Calvinist usually says that ALL men does not mean all mankind in totality but all men as in irregardless of race, creed, tongue, social class, and so on.

    But the real question is : saved from WHAT ?

    If saved from the wrath of God, didn't Jesus Christ accomplish that for those whom the Father gave Him ? If this desire of God is for the eternal salvation of all men, then didn't He himself cause Daniel to quote Nebuchadnezzar as saying that He is a God who does whatsoever he desires in the army of heaven and earth ?

    Apparently, God's desire that all men be saved is not in the eternal sense, because He did that in Christ. If not in the eternal sense, then there can only be the Doctrinal, Moral, and Gospel sense, where men are taught and discipled in truth and the narrow way, since God did save all He wanted to save in Christ but apparently not all will be taught of and hear about the gospel.

    While the Calvinist may be right about the need to reach out to God's people, bear in mind that not all who have God's word can have the ability to reach all who need to be reached. Only the Holy Spirit, who is God, and therefore Omnipresent, can do that.
     

Share This Page

Loading...