http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/698630.html#Post698630 Gerhard: What about Mark 15:42? Compare the KJV with the NIV and see if you can SEE the 'New Lie'? Gregory: A statement may be false. It may be false due to ignorance. But. a false statement is never a lie unless there is an intention to deceive. It appears to me that you are attempting to charge a translation of the Bible with an intention to deceive. This is inappropriate in this forum. Joe: I agree with Gregory. Totally irrelevant compared to the fact that He DID rise. Alien: Mark 15:42, 43 KJV And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. Mark 15:42,43 NIV It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. Whatever is this guy talking about? The only difference I can see is between "craved" and "asked", and "counselor" and "member of the Council", likely involving a hair or two to split. Johann: The creation of such hair splitting theories is what is destroying sections of our church today. Gerhard: I should have titled this thread, The Discovery of New, Intentional, Lies, Unseen by Many, Ignored by Most who Found them. I assume you who so far have 'replied', are all, Sabbath believers. Well, I am also a Sabbath believer. I assume you who have replied above, are Seventh-day Adventists. Well, the SDA church has ALWAYS believed a day STARTS, "when the even was come" KJV AND EVERY English Bible ever translated up until the nineteenth century --- IT IS NOT ONLY THE KJV. So, ALL English Bibles before the twentienth century speak of the BEGINNING OF THE PROSPECTIVE DAY: "WHEN THE EVENING HAD COME". Just to confirm, compare Mark 15:42 and parallels Matthew 27:57 with Mark 14:17 and parallels Matthew 26:20 Luke 22:14 John 13:1,30. When was the Last Supper? In the "NIGHT" : "WHEN EVENING HAD COME" "the hour" for it AFTER SUNSET??? Has the SDA position CHANGED, that the prospective day begins with its "evening" and the retrospective day HAD ENDED BEFORE "evening had come already"?! It seems so because you – above - DENY "as evening approached" / "late noon" [in my own Afrikaans Bible] IS ANY DIFFERENT than "when evening had come / was come". It was my personal EXPERIENCE with the translators of my own Afrikaans Bible, I can and MUST tell you for a FACT, that they CHANGED Mark 15:42, INTENTIONALLY with the very PURPOSE TO CHANGE the DAY on which Joseph "arrived". And the GREATER FACT has been recorded and IS FIXED UNDENIABLY and for posterity unalterably IN YOUR OWN ENGLISH Bibles by the score in EVERY edition that ends up on the shelves in retail shops --- PURPOSEFULLY TO DECEIVE AND BACKED BY THE FISCAL POWERHOUSE OF THE VATICAN! Why? Because Mark 15:42 as used to be translated, meant the END OF EASTER AND ‘RESURRECTION SUNDAY’. Tom: Gerhard, if you are the only one seeing a lie, perhaps you should consider where that thought originates. I think it is time for you to peddle your wares elsewhere. Moderator Gerhard: Thank you, Tom Wetmore, You are correct, I must consider <where that thought originates>!! BEFORE GOD I SHALL NOT LIE BECAUSE ONLY AGAINST GOD SHOULD I SIN! Where originated the thought --- the very AWARENESS of it?? Here is my story: Sitting in the the pew in the church on a Sabbath to worship God the Saviour of my soul reading the _New_, International Version. I did not know it was 'New'. I just read my Bible while before the service would start. I seldom if ever read an English Bible; I only read my Afrikaans Bible. I read the passage because I wanted to contemplate on Christ's suffering --- for me. It struck me, my Afrikaans Bible states "when it had been evening". I always believed “evening” is after sunset. Everywhere in my Afrikaans Bible, the 'evening' CLEARLY is the NIGHT and starts after sunset --- no exceptions. I knew my Bible, I am not ashamed to say. My Seventh-day Adventist God-fearing PARENTS taught me to know my Bible. But here, this new Bible tells me evening was approaching --- in other words, it was NOT EVENING YET but before evening would have begun sunset and after sundown. I had NO other intentions or preconceived ideas or agenda ABOUT ANYTHING. THIS was my own experience which I believe GOD sent on my way, which sparked the beginning of my LIFE-LONG DISCOVERY OF THE BIBLE…. …. and in passing, not only THIS NEW LIE but many more new and old LIES, ALREADY by brute force of majority-believing, cleverly worked into the Word of God. Do not lay this LIE in the NIV at my door, Tom Wetmore. I am not the liar here, the SUNDAY believing TRANSLATORS are the liars here as in many other places.