Divided Against Ourselves

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. Van

    Van
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    The body of Christ, the universal church of Christianity, made up of brothers and sisters in Christ is riddled with divisions. Yet largely these differing groups rely upon the same scriptures. So it is in our understanding of scripture where we part company, with each group sincerely believing their view while not perfect appears to be closest to the intended message of God.

    Even the approach we use to gain our understanding of scripture varies, so no wonder that what we derive differs. But even when folks use very similar rules of interpretation, hermeneutics if you will, they still come to very different conclusions. Looking at it dispassionately from outside, it is easy to conclude that largely we do not know what we are talking about.

    Yet rather than address this obvious truth, we keep issuing degrees to students of the bible, providing the impression that these students have been qualified by the process so that they can be relied upon to present God’s truth.

    If you look at some of the well-respected modern translations, the NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV and HCSB, you see that the same Greek word is translated differently within the same version and differently from version to version. It appears that historical consistency trumps any effort at coherency, where the same word is translated in as few different ways as possible. Words such as “all” are thought to mean “everything imaginable” in one verse of an author, and then in a very limited way in another verse by the same author. In order to avoid unwarranted extrapolations, only the most limited scope of meaning should be presented. Any expansion should be placed in notes or commentary, especially where views differ.

    Only when we adopt a minimalist approach to the text will we find a wider area of mutual agreement. But this necessary action has not been taken because of our devotion to the doctrines born of non-conservative exegesis from the likes of Augustine, Luther, Calvin and so forth.
     
  2. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Van...

    Actually, we are not. We are one body, or "universal church", here on this earth. Jesus prayed that we be one, so we are.

    The problem is the flesh. It causes us to act as if we are not one. But we are.

    Of course. The unchanging standard of truth.

    Yes. And hopefully we all realise that we are all still learners, or disciples.

    Someone who takes that view, that we dont know what we are talking, about would be in great great error. God speaks clearly to the lost through us, because it is not us speaking, but God speaking through us. Its been working for 2000 years now.

    One does not have to have a degree to be grounded in the truth of the scriptures, and share that truth with others.

    And yet, it is still and always will be our solid and trustworthy truth standard. Praise God for His great provision.

    I'm not "devoted" to any of those guys.

    I am devoted to my Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    God bless.
     
    #2 Alive in Christ, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2011
  3. Grasshopper

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    Just another slam at Calvinists.
     
  4. Alive in Christ

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    I dont know about that. He mentions Calvin, but also Augustine and Luther.

    Van at times parrots some of the Catholic cult's erroneous criticisms of Evangelicalism.
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    Reply to Alive in Christ

    "Van at times parrots some of the Catholic cult's erroneous criticisms of Evangelicalism.

    Why do you feel that it is appropriate to slander me with general non specific slams. You cannot read my mind, yet your post proclaims I am parroting something derived from man-made doctrine rather than supporting everything I say from specific scripture.

    Such behavior ensures the body does not grow more mature, with us building each other up. Please address my views, perhaps some miss the mark. But disparaging me in an effort to undercut my views does not seem brotherly.

    To say we do not have divisions then refer to a Catholic cult seems silly.

    When I say we do not know what we are talking about I am referring to the doctrines that divide the body, not the actual truth of the gospel.

    Of course no one needs a pedigree to understand and spread the truth of God's word. My point was that the pedigree does not mean much when what is offered is rejected by others with similar pedigree's from other schools.
     
    #5 Van, Mar 14, 2011
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  6. Alive in Christ

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    Van...


    I'm sorry, but I didnt slander you at all. I simply voiced the *observation* that your post contained the same criticisizms that Catholics hurl our way.

    Articulating an observation is not slander

    I never said you were a Catholic.

    God bless

    AiC
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    Reply to Alive in Christ

    You addressed me, not any specific view and your observation was false. Slander, pure and simple. I note with interest you provided no example of me parroting Catholic cult criticisms of Evangelicalism.

    I have no interest in continuing this sidetracking effort.

    We are divided against ourselves because of non-conservative doctrines that take scripture too far. Some of the doctrines that divide are Calvinism and Arminianism, Open Theism, Universalism, all based on adding the inventions of men to make scripture to no effect. Choice becomes non-choice, eternal becomes limited duration, and so forth.
     
  8. Alive in Christ

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    Van...


    The example, Van, is what you posted...

    That is a *classic* argument that Catholics use in debating Evangelicals.


    You also said this...

    That as well is a classic Catholic style attack on evangelicalism.

    Your charge of "slander" is unwarrented, and completly false. Again...I never said you were catholic. I simply read what you posted and made an observation.


    I can certainly understand why.

    However, it is NOT a SIDETRACKING effort to simply comment on something someone posted on a discussion board.
     
    #8 Alive in Christ, Mar 14, 2011
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  9. Tom Butler

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    This would be true if there were such a thing as the universal church.

    I'm fascinated by your argument AIC. We are one, but we don't act like it. We are divided, but we're really not.

    I really can't participate in this thread to any extent because I can't accept the premise on which it's based. But I'll lurk with interest.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Yes, a blind man could see it.

    Guten Abend
     
  11. quantumfaith

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    Eich nicht ferstein.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    ch lerne eben erst die Sprache. Sprechen Sie German? Welcher Dialekt? Wifes-Vater Otto ist von Stuttgart. Schwäbischer Dialekt wird gesprochen.

    Tschuss:smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. Alive in Christ

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    Would you two stop speaking in tongues, please! :smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. Tom Butler

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    If one of the will interpret, then I think it's okay.
     
  15. Alive in Christ

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    Tom...

    Maybe their talking about US! :eek:

    You know, like...Boy that Tom sure is dumb, and that AiC. he's even DUMBER!"
     
  16. Van

    Van
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    Reply to Alive in Christ

    "Even the approach we use to gain our understanding of scripture varies, so no wonder that what we derive differs. But even when folks use very similar rules of interpretation, hermeneutics if you will, they still come to very different conclusions. Looking at it dispassionately from outside, it is easy to conclude that largely we do not know what we are talking about.

    Is this a classic criticism of the Catholic cult or would this statement apply to students graduating from Catholic schools?

    And to say that Catholic style attack non-Catholics is saying we are following non-conservative folks like Augustine seems weak.
     
    #16 Van, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2011
  17. Van

    Van
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  18. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Huh.....you consider Augustine non conservative? Are you kidding?!?
     
  19. Alive in Christ

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    Tom Butler...

    Exactly.

    Precisely!

    I do believe you've got it!
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    I think so, too. The light bulb just sorta came on. It's a mackerel!

    Seriously, we're not gonna agree about this, but I appreciate the way you advance your point.
     

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