Divorced musicians

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by AdoptedDaughter, Feb 2, 2002.

  1. AdoptedDaughter

    AdoptedDaughter
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    Should a muscian, who is in the Christian music limelight, who gets a divorce remain in the limelight?

    For example, should Amy Grant have contiued to have concerts in the Christian setting after her divorce?

    Just wondering what you think,
    Teresa
     
  2. Brother Adam

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    I think that remains between her and God. I would imagine some off time to get her life back together would be a good idea. I do know that God uses the really dumb things we do to show us His majesty, and He very well could do that for her. I don't think that any one of us can make that decision for Amy though.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  3. Mike McK

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by baptistforever:
    Should a muscian, who is in the Christian music limelight, who gets a divorce remain in the limelight?

    For example, should Amy Grant have contiued to have concerts in the Christian setting after her divorce?

    Just wondering what you think,
    Teresa
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Why not?

    Randy Stonehill's divorced. Bruce Carroll's divorced and God's used both of them.

    Should a recovering alcoholic such as David Meece remain in the limelight?

    If we're going to use that logic, then we're in serious trouble because all of us are sinners. Who would be left?

    Musicians are musicians. If we turn a Christian artist out into the mainstream, he's still a Christian artist.

    Mike
    http://www.keylife.org
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    I was listening to a secular radio station who used this very topic of Amy Grant's divorce and remarriage as an opportunity to mock Christianity. It is amazing how clearly the world sees it. They expect Christians to be different, to live to a higher standard. It is amazing the times that I am out doing something, mostly playing golf with people who don't me, who cuss like a sailor and drink. When the conversation turns, as it almost inevitably does, to "What do you do for a living" I tell them I am a pastor. Almost invariably they apologize all over themselves for their language. Why? Because they expect me to be different than they are. They know, instinctively (because of the image of God in man), that a person who knows God lives a different kind of life. It seems its the Christians who don't expect themselves to be different.

    We are all sinners to be sure but it is possible to disqualify oneself from public ministry. Giving occasion to the enemy of God to blaspheme, as happened on this radio station, is unspeakable. It should never have happened.

    [ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  5. Brother Adam

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    Pastor Larry,

    Are you basically saying that Amy should no longer be in the spotlight?

    UNP
    Adam
     
  6. Mike McK

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
    We are all sinners to be sure but it is possible to disqualify oneself from public ministry. Giving occasion to the enemy of God to blaspheme, as happened on this radio station, is unspeakable. It should never have happened.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amy's been quite open about what caused her divorce. It was clearly her fault. She was, by her own admission, fooling around with Vince Gill long before she ended her marriage.

    Her husband Gary Chapman did everything he could be expected to do to save their marriage. He tried to get her into counseling and she refused.

    According to her, he literally got down on his knees and begged her to stay.

    Their pastor tried to get them into counseling. When she refused, having already made up her mind, Gary and their kids went, anyway.

    Why should he be punished by being held to the same standard as Amy and being publically "disqualified from public ministry" when he and his children were clearly the victims here?

    God uses broken vessels all the time and I'm glad He does.

    Perhaps He put people such as Chapman and Stonehill where they are so that they, as divorced people, they can reach out to other divorced people.

    Mike

    http://www.keylife.org
     
  7. Kiffin

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    Gary Chapman I think was very open about his marriage but in the interviews I read with Amy Grant she has denied adultery (though that is very hard to believe!) The sad thing is several years ago Michael English was called on the carpet for similar behavior by the CCM industry but with Amy the Queen of Gospel music they seem to ignore immoral behavior.

    Many of us who use to defend Grant from her critics in the 80's were left with egg on our faces. I too have heard the secular media mock and ridicule Grant and Gill but the CCM industry doesn't get it(The CCM industry always seem to be a slow learner).

    I wonder what the late CCM pioneer Keith Green would think of the CCM industry if he was still alive today? Probably preach a John the Baptist message! :(
     
  8. Daniel

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    The divorced person issue primarily deals with Pastors (Biblical term, Bishops). Even on that matter there is much controversy. The divorced person may not be the guilty party, as in the case of Gary Chapman. Amy was primarily at fault. Chapman tried to save the marriage and made a valiant attempt. Due to Amy's adultery, etc. it became an impossible-to-salvage situation; hence, the divorce.

    Divorce does not make a Christian a second-class citizen. There may be Pastoral limitations to service, but that appears to be the main spiritual office and perhaps the only one to which the scriptures speak in terms of service opportunities.

    If the divorce is a sin for a particular person,it is as covered by the blood of Christ as gossip. What's the difference between those two sins in God's eyes? Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. How many of us Baptists have gossiped this week? 95% at the least?

    Why do we fetter people with extra-Biblical prohibitions and regulation? No, I am not advocating divorce. I am not encouraging divorce. I hate divorce. I pray that it never occurs to me. But, why are we castigating a group of people who have been through such a painful situation instead of helping them through the situation? Where is our Biblical compassion? Where is the love of Christ that constraineth us? Therefore to him that thinketh he standeth, take heed, lest he fall. Come on folks, let's think Biblically.

    Unfortunately, Amy Grant was the starting illustration for this thread. That makes this case I've posted extra hard to swallow. I know that. But get over the Amy part and listen to the reason of the scriptures--if we confess our sins (maybe that's a divorce), He is faithful and just (notice that word in particular) to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all (note that word also) unrighteousness.

    Confess. Receive God's forgiveness. Turn from the sin. Move on and serve God.
     
  9. Aaron

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    I think the problem here is our refusal to believe Christ who said that anyone who gives his wife a writing of divorcement causes her to commit adultery.

    What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

    Amy should be disciplined according to Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5. If she repents (truly repents and mourns over her sin and the sins of others to which her sin opened the door, and gives clear evidence for a time sufficient to say that her repentance is genuine--staying "married" to Gill is out of the question) then she can be no longer reproached for that sin. She would be, because of the forgiveness of sins, blameless and above reproach.

    If she doesn't repent, then she is to be to us as an heathen and a publican. Her songs are to be disqualified despite their content because her character (though wholly consistent with the musical style) is not consistent with the message of the words.

    [ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  10. Daniel

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    Well put, Aaron! Excellent articulation of what of was trying to post above. Thanks, brother!
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    Pastor Larry,

    Are you basically saying that Amy should no longer be in the spotlight?

    UNP
    Adam
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I would remove the word "basically." Sin has an affect. Amy Grant is standing up and telling others how to live and serve and praise the God whom she has embarrassed by her wicked, sinful lifestyle. There is no reason for her to be in any type of ministry in terms of leadership or teaching. She has demonstrated that she does not have the character necessary at this time. It is necessary for her to repent, submit to the authority of a lical church, engage in serious discipleship, and then after she has developed a character worthy of respect and emulation consider reentering some form of ministry.

    Consider that the primary teaching tool in ministry is not word but example. Word teaches knowledge; lifestyle teaches core beliefs.
     
  12. Brother Adam

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    I agree with both Aaron and Pastor Larry. It seems that she does not belong in the spotlight if she still hasn't repented for the mess she made out of her life. I wasn't aware of that. I also agree with what Aaron says about that she can be forgiven [​IMG]

    UNP
    Adam
     
  13. AdoptedDaughter

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    Originally posted by Kiffin: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>but with Amy the Queen of Gospel music they seem to ignore immoral behavior.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is very sad because it hurts many, many testimonies for Christians. Many young Christians look at CCM or Gospel, or any other Christian singer and use that as a guide to their Christian walk. What Amy did by her lifestyle was telling young girls that it is okay to get married and divorced because there are no consequences.
    Sandi Patti(sp?) is another example. She went through a divorce, but she also sought the forgiveness of those who followed her career. She did not continue to be in the spotlight, but she instead backed off from the CCM industry and repented, sought forgiveness and got her life back together.
    After she did all this, then and only then, did she come back into the ministry and allowed God to use her. It is possible, I believe, for one caught in sin to come back into the ministry, but certain steps must be taken. I believe Pastor Larry explained them in his post. We must be careful what we do and so must those in ministry, because when you are in ministry more people are looking at your example, and what you do either strengthes the testimony or weakens it.

    Originally posted by Smoke_Eater: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why should he be punished by being held to the same standard as Amy and being publically "disqualified from public ministry" when he and his children were clearly the victims here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gary Chapman wasn't neccessarily punished for the divorce, he chose to step out of the public eye and take some time off. A song he sang about two years ago was very powerful because he revealed what he was going through on the inside. He took time off, I don't know why, but I believe that God used his time off to strengthen him and give him a stronger testimony.

    In my opinion, if anyone is in the Christian ministry, they need to be very careful with what they do because a lot of the witnessing is done through music and other ministry and the lifestyles with those involved. We as Christians are supposed to have a different lifestyle from those who haven't received the faith and what we do is watched by so many more than if you were not in the spotlight.
    Our lifestyles says a lot about our walk with God, and if we want people to see that our walk with God is strong and we are madly in love with God, then we must be careful what we do, and if we stumble, we must seek forgiveness and step out of the light until God says that it is okay for us to be in the light again.

    In Christ's gracious love,
    Teresa
     
  14. superdave

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    I saw Amy Grant in concert in The lovely metropolis of Grand Rapids (teresa and Adam might have been there too! :D ) She was with M.W. Smith, and I think Point of Grace. She was wearing some rather revealing formals (good thing I was in the 50th row!) and changed about every 10 minutes. She talked about how cute Smith was and stuff, it was really uncomfortable, even for him it looked like to me. Smith impressed me, and I have seen him by himself, and he is very focused on his music and his faith, but Amy could have been a bimbo off the street with her behaviour, that is what struck me, even before the Vince Gill fiasco. My wife and I both really were not pleased with her, and that is sad, because I think earlier in her career she was more genuine and really had some credibility as a christian musician. She is now the laughing stock to the secular music community. The divorce is just icing on the cake! She really seems to have some issues that need to be taken care of, like all of us, but I am not such a prominent testimony, and the light really would be off of her if the Music community wasn't so commercialized. If her music will sell, they will sell it.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    I agree ! At the risk of offending a lot of people I respect here, I have to say these people care more about the spotlight, more about their careers, than they do about spreading the Gospel. I don't claim to ba a better Christian than anyone. But it seems to me these people would better serve the Lord by turning their back on fame, & joining a local New testament church. Or starting one somewhere. Of coarse, that would mean less money, wouldn't it ?
     
  16. rsr

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    Any time you present yourself as a Christian -- famous or not -- you will be compared to the standard. It doesn't have to be a messy divorce: How many times have you been driving and been cut off by someone with a "Jesus Loves You" bumper sticker and not wondered about that person's faith? ;)
     
  17. redwhitenblue

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    well what I have to say on this is....if we're going to abandon amy then, I'll get in behind her in line then aaron may follow and the rest of all the other christians in this world. why?? because the only thing that is preventing us from doing what amy did is the grace of God, we are just as capable of doing the same thing and we all have serious sin in our lives sooooo pick up those stones and lets start hitting ourselves with them because every single one of us deserves it. ya know something else....just when you lower yourself enough to point a finger at ones sin, you end up finding yourself doing the same thing...I know I did so just be careful where you are walking. &lt;wink&gt;

    karen
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    Karen,

    No one is talking about abandoning Grant. No one is casting stones (perhaps the most misused argument from Scripture).

    We are talking about the responsibilities of leadership and ministry and she failed. That's the bottom line. Choices have consequences and ministry must, I repeat must, be characterized by integrity. She has none. Not everyone is entitled to minister publicly. Scripture sets a high standard and those who don't measure up lose their privilege of public ministry.
     
  19. AdoptedDaughter

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    Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I agree ! At the risk of offending a lot of people I respect here, I have to say these people care more about the spotlight, more about their careers, than they do about spreading the Gospel."

    That may be how it comes across to you, but is that the truth? I know of many Christian musicians who are very active in their church. Music is a ministry. If the musicians aren't presenting the gospel, then they aren't in it for the ministry, however, to say that they are all in it for the money would not be very accurate. I have followed Mark Lowry for many years. He is not in it for the money, he is in it because he says that he felt that God called him to do it. He is simply following God, not money. I have not been to any concert of his that did not have the gospel presented. This man loves God, be careful how you phrase your comments.

    "I don't claim to ba a better Christian than anyone. But it seems to me these people would better serve the Lord by turning their back on fame, & joining a local New testament church. Or starting one somewhere. Of coarse, that would mean less money, wouldn't it ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    God has called some to be pastors, some church planters, some servers, some housewives, some students, some musicians. If we are to say that they would be better serving the Lord in a New Testament church, then we would be saying that God doesn't have everything within His plan. God has called many of those who are in the music industry to be in the music industry. God has not called me to be a pastor or church planter. I believe that God has called me to minister through music. Would you then be saying that I would be better ignoring God and go planting a church. I believe that you know that the answer is no. The fact of the matter is that there have been those who have failed. However, many have repented and God has used them. The issue about Amy Grant is that many young girls look up to her as a Christian role model, and the outfits that she was wearing at the concert was a bad witness and the situation in which she placed herself was a bad witness too.
    If I were to give an example of someone who failed, was a female, repented and allowed God to work through her would be Sandi Patti. Sandi Patti went through a divorce, yes, but she also sought forgiveness, backed away until things were right before her and God, and repented and allowed God to turn her situation into something that He could work through.
    No one is perfect, but if you are going to be in the limelight; there are certain obligations that are focused on more than others. Because of this fact, they as Christians are to have as close a walk with God, and as strong a testimony as they possibly can have. Amy Grant failed, but given the opportunity to seek forgiveness and repent, she declined and instead lied through her teeth an dinadvertantly said to the young girls who she is a role model to:
    "It doesn't matter what you do because no consequences will come about."

    That is a bad testimony and not a person that I would want to be associated with.

    In Christ's gracious love,
    Teresa
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by baptistforever:
    God has called some to be ... musicians.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Can you cite some Scripture for a call to be a musician??

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If we are to say that they would be better serving the Lord in a New Testament church, then we would be saying that God doesn't have everything within His plan. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not at all. There is no NT precedent for anyone working outside the authority of the local church. The local church is God's instrument for this age. Everyone would be better serving God through a local church.
     

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