Do all people hear the gospel?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. whetstone

    whetstone
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    This is an important question to ask and it has devastating consequences for those with Arminian-like theology.

    If all people HAVE heard the gospel, why are missionaries still feverishly translating the Bible into new languages that have never heard the name of Christ?

    If all people HAVEN'T heard the gospel, then all people haven't gotten the same chance to accept Christ. If this is true- why couldn't God give all people an equal shot? Either: a) He wasn't capable of doing it or b) He chose not to do it.

    What is your answer?
     
  2. 4His_glory

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    Excellent point whetstone. I think you will find the answer is that Arminians limit God.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I would love to hear the Arminian's answer to this.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. StefanM

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    B) He chose not to.

    This only has devastating consquences for those who deny God's sovereignty. I don't know why he chose not to allow every individual to hear his Word, but he is God. Who am I to question?

    As a non-Calvinist, it is my conviction that God chooses to allow individuals to give the ability to choose him or reject him. Even among those who hear the gospel there is no equity. Some hear the gospel for years; others might hear it only once.

    I don't understand it all, but I trust God's will.
     
  5. webdog

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    Here's what one of your fellow calvinists, Johnny Mac has to say about Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

    John Mac. "God holds all men responsible for their refusal to acknowledge what He has shown them of Himself in His creation. Even those who have NEVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR THE GOSPEL have received a clear witness about the existence and character of God- and have suppressed it. If a person will respond to the revelation he has, even if it is solely natural revelation, God will provide some means for that person to hear the gospel." Maccarthur Study Bible pg. 1693

    I would say this is one of the things I agree with John Macarthur on, and pretty much answers the question. There is no election involved here, but the free will of man to recognize God through even the finest in creation. The ones who do not worship God, but rather the sun or animals, God is just and sovereign in letting those never hear the gospel.
     
  6. whetstone

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    So essentially God isn't letting them hear the gospel because they worship the sun or animals? Doesn't He let other sun/animal worshippers hear the gospel? Why does He treat some different than others- why don't ALL people hear the gospel?

    [ July 12, 2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: whetstone ]
     
  7. webdog

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    There is not a straight yes or no answer. Do infants hear the gospel? Brain damaged people? Aborted fetuses? If you include them, the answer has to be no. But the God I serve is a loving God, and supplies a means for them to spend eternity with Him. Romans 1 shows that everyone that can understand the gospel, instintively knows about God. I believe God gives those same people the opportunity to spend eternity with Him as He would an infant or MD person.
     
  8. whetstone

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    How are these people (whom you just said are without excuse) able to have a chance for salvation without the gospel even existing in their language? How are rational men and women who drink iniquity like water even remotely comparable to infants or mentally handicapped people?
     
  9. StefanM

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    Wow...I'm agreeing with Calvinists . . .
     
  10. webdog

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    When the Bible says that we were created in God's image, did He lie? "Rational men" and infants ALIKE are precious to God and created in God's image THE SAME.

    The answer to your first question...ask God, because only He has the answer to that. God is sovereign. God is love (1 John 4:8). 1 Corinthians 13:4-8,13 tells us what love is. Put the word "God" in the place of "love" and that will answer your question...unless you think God is hate like plenty of calvinists do.
     
  11. webdog

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    Funny how they NEVER agree with anyone opposed to them, though?
     
  12. whetstone

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    Funny how they NEVER agree with anyone opposed to them, though? </font>[/QUOTE]I'll pretend I didn't read this sweeping and ignorant generalization.

    I agree. There was that so bad?

    I agree again [​IMG] Two for two! So let's ask God. God, what is the answer to the question?

    1Cr 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?

    God's answer is that He alone has made these men and women to differ from us- and was therefore the reason they do not hear the gospel. The answer to the OP is: No. The answer to 'why' is: The freewill of God.

    God IS hate. He hates wickedness so much He will punish it for eternity to show His glory. But He isn't ONLY hate- nor is He ONLY love. The problem is when we have an unbalanced view of God. The Lord will not sacrifice His justice for His love, nor His holiness for His mercy. He WILL send the wicked to hell, and He is not obligated to save anyone. We certainly believe in a God of love for He has elected to save some souls from that inferno they so richly deserve! Such love as this is quite unfathomable!
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Calvinists limit God to "not telling the truth" - He can go ahead and "say" HE "So LOVES the World" and even "CONVICTS the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" AND can also SAY that "HE DRAWS ALL MANKIND" to himself - but he just can't ACTUALLY DO IT!! (At least if He can -- HE CHOOSES NOT TO no matter how that reflects on His WORD).

    Arminians on the other hand - claim that all those statements of God are "literally -- as in REALLY - true".

    So "there is no limit" for the Arminian view.

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. BobRyan

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    That is "Close".

    If you read Romans 1 you see that the intelligent "thinking" people ARE confronted with the truth of God via nature (As Paul also points out in Romans 10) -- but this is not the same as an infant that dies at birth. While it may be argued successfully that "abstract concepts" such as the gospel are not applicable at all to an infant's understanding - -the same can not be said for thinking individuals.

    To see the case of thinking individuals who DO NOT have the written Word of God - we go to .... Romans TWO!!

    There we see that the SAME rule applies to them AS TO those people WITH the written Word of God. They are judged based on the work of the Holy Spirit under the conditions of the New Covenant. IF They choose to YIELD to the world-wide work of God the Holy Spirit and are born-again, new Creations with "The Law written on the tablets of the human heart" THEN they are accounted as spiritual Jews!

    What an amazing chapter showing GOD as the WORLD WIDE evangelist!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. whetstone

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    So basically people who never hear the gospel can somehow get saved because God comes down and evangelizes to them?
     
  16. whatever

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    Those with whom we agree are not opposed to us, so ...

    :confused:
     
  17. 4His_glory

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    People will only respond to the revelation they have by the grace of God. This were the differnce lies and I know J Mac will say the same thing. You evidently believe man has the ability in and of himself to respond to the revelation, I say because of man's sin he will never respond unless God enables him too.

    It all comes down to how sinful man really is. Notice what Paul says in the passage, "they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

    They DID NOT respond to the revalation they recieved and their hearts were darkened. They made a desicion because of their sin, to not respond, whcih is the only descision they could make apart from the grace of God.
     
  18. johnp.

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  19. BobRyan

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    So basically people who never hear the gospel can somehow get saved because God comes down and evangelizes to them? </font>[/QUOTE]The Bible says - "God Draws ALL" to Him John 12:32...

    I believe that - and do not present it as bad marketing by a God that does not REALLY draw ALL.


    The Bible says - "God convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16.

    I believe that - and do not present it as bad marketing by a God that does not REALLY convict THE WORLD.


    The Bible says that "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD" 1John 4:14 such that "HE is the atoning sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT for OUR SINS only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2.

    I believe that - and do not present it as bad marketing by a God that does not REALLY care about the WHOLE WORLD.

    The Bible says of some gentiles "they DO NOT have the LAW yet they DO INSTINCTIVELY those things written IN the LAW ... SHOWING the LAW written on their heart" Rom 2:13-16. -- The Heb 8 New Covenant promise SEEN among those without scritpure.

    I believe that - and do not present it as bad marketing by a God that does not REALLY have a NEW COVENANT changed-heart ability/power/gospel for those who DO NOT have access to the written Word.

    But then -- I am Arminian!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. webdog

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