do pastors and staff

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by massdak, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    earn a retirement from the church?

    i have noticed in built up churches with big memberships that a retiring pastor gets a pretty good retirement plan out of the church, is this biblical and does his pastoring require such a perk?
     
  2. Artimaeus

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    It isn't a requirement but there is nothing wrong with a local church providing for the "golden years" of a man who has dedicated his life 24/7/365 to their spiritual welfare. There is no difference between this and paying him more and letting him provide for himself. What should they do, let him work for them all his life and then when he is old and infirm just throw him out and let him fend for himself?
     
  3. blackbird

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    Massdak!

    I participate in the SBC's Annuity Board retirement system---under IRS allowance I can take up to 10%(don't quote me on that figure) of my salary per year and "dump" it into my retirement account. Its called a Salary Reduction Agreement. Then each church I serve I ask them for this agreement---if I put in $1.00 into my retirement out of my salary would they agree to match that figure by half---meaning for the dollar I put in---the church would put in fifty cents!! Then there is a deal with the Mississippi Baptist Convention---where the Convention throws in a small "something" into pastor's retirement---it ain't much but I ain't gripeing---little adds up to much in the years of participation!

    Your buddy,
    Blackbird
     
  4. showard93

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    I think it is a great idea to have a retirement plan for your Pastor. I just think a church can't be to good to there Pastor and a church that takes care of there Pastor I beleive God will bless them.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433
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    A number of people I kmow who have retired with the Annuity Board have lost a serious amount of money within the past few years due to lower interest rates and poor investments.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    A deacon's prayer:
    Lord: We will keep that preacher poor, :eek:
    if You will just keep him humble. Amen.
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    Our staff does. The church puts into retirement up to 10 percent of their cash salary.
     
  8. massdak

    massdak
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    i believe most chruches today are run like a business without the biblical mandate.

    churches are tied up like most government branches deciding salary's and Church building issues and that seems to be it
     
  9. Servent

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    A Pastor friend of my grandmothers who discided to retire at about age 70, had lived in a parsonage all his career, He suddenly found himself with no place to live and know were to go. His last church tried to help but they were small and could not do very much. Of course this was 30 years ago and times have changed.
     
  10. Pete

    Pete
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    "24/7/365"

    I thought that was Biblical requirement for every Christian...

    I'ld love to see a Church where every believer there realised that's what they are supposed to be [​IMG] Oh well, 20 years time I might see it, working on the Sunday school kids now [​IMG]
     
  11. Artimaeus

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    That's a good point but it is still different with a pastor. I spend 40 hours a week working and another ten getting ready and traveling to work. I am not on call to be notified of and participate in every birth, death, illness, marital problem, social event, and spiritual need of dozens perhaps hundreds or thousands of people. I know we all should be but that is my point. If we all were, we still wouldn't be asked to carry the heavy burden that pastors carry because the load would be distributed much more evenly.
     
  12. Lil Sister

    Lil Sister
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    There you go. I must agree. While I don't believe it is wrong or unbiblical to have a worship house, so much emphasis is placed on the building & the church governmental structure that it ties up the time, money & interest of God's people, leaving little interest or time for outreach. I figured out recently the obscene cost of American religion, just to build one of these shrines. It is horrific! To think of the millions of dollars wasted on surround-sound sound systems,expensive pulpits, and payment for Pastor Tom (head pastor), Pastor Dick (youth pastor) and Pastor Harry (music pastor) the like can cost a million dollars for an "average" American church--I kid you not.
    In the meanwhile, Burmese Christians live in jungles, running for their lives from the government, who is trying to wipe out every Christian. In Laos, the government has declared war on Christianity, and murdered many pastors.
    In Sudan, people starve to death. All over the world, people need the prayers, money and time of believers, but few here in the US even know all of this is going on. And if they do, do they care? Do they wrestle in prayer on behalf of those sisters & brothers across the ocean? Do they take up large collections to feed these needy brethren, and make sure they have Bibles in their own languages? Few, sadly few.
    I'm not against churches providing for their retired pastors. A laborer is worthy of his hire. You don't generally shoot a horse who is getting elderly, you put him out to pasture!
    But helping those who can know longer minister is a far cry from explaining all the millions American Christians throw at those things that will pass away.
    If believers would get back to the Bible, there'd be simpler worship halls, more emphasis on worship, the Word & evangelism, more believers taking on their roles in "the priesthood of the believers"--more people to minister "for free", rather than everyone expecting a salary. Then we might see revival/reformation in the US, more mission work abroad, and our persecuted brethren in Christ have more of their true needs met!
     
  13. massdak

    massdak
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    very good post
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    One of the sadest legacies of the "independent" baptist movement is the loss of all retirement plans and programs that were common in the large conventions.

    Many pastors opt out of social security (for conscience reasons) and unless they develop a strong retirement program - where they or their church invest $$ like they would for FICA.

    Would encourage every good steward of the money God entrusts to us to plan wisely. Read about a king building a tower and not counting the cost . . .

    THAT is not faith; it is presumption.
     
  15. j_barner2000

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    I believe that should be a matter discussed between the pastor and the church as part of the salary considerations... Some churches will match the pastor's contirbutions to a retirement plan... Some won't. It is an individual's responsibility to provide for his/her own retirement. Either they have that as an employer provided benefit (like health insurance etc.) or they need to provide for their own. Many people have found out that they cannot make it on social security alone too late.
     
  16. go2church

    go2church
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    Thinking the rapture will come before your 65 is not a very good retirement plan.
    I am responsible for my own retirement and always have been. If you do contribute to say the Annuity Board most states will match a percentage of what you put in, in effect free money. For the record there are about 5 or 6 mutual fund type companies that didn't lose money recently, nobody lost their initial investment in the Annuity Board, what was lost were the "gains" that were made. Investing is a long term prospect, over the long haul stocks and such do very well. If your 62 and want to retire next year you are in trouble!
     
  17. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
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    Luckily, we don't have to mess with any of that. Our Pastor gets no salary. The church gives him $25 a week as a gift, in order to help pay for his gas to and from church and meal. He will get no retirement because he can not retire. When you work for God, you're in it for life.

    Some churches can afford only to feed their Pastor...some can't afford that.

    All I know is, if an elder ever asks what he will be making as our Pastor, that's someone we don't need to call as Pastor.

    With regard to building costs, we are currently looking for land to relocate. We have approx. $100,000, and that looks like it will not be enough for the land, let alone for the building. Currently, we are meeting at another church on 2nd & 4th Sundays. I would ask that everyone here pray for our church, and that we will follow the Lord's direction.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    James - that is one of the saddest posts I've read. I WILL pray for your church and this attitude that is doing great harm to pastors. [​IMG]
     
  19. Jim1999

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    I quite agree with Dr. Bob. That is a sad commentary about asking a man to work for nothing when no one else in society will work for nothing.

    I served a church for ten dollars a week, but it was not because the church refused to pay a minister, but because they couldn't afford it.

    No false piety with this lad. I have the same education as a medical doctor, worked just as hard, and received little compensation over the years. A labourer is worthy of his hire.

    So glad when two things came to be in my lifetime. Churches stopped this silly idea about ministers living in "their" house, in lieu of pay, and a pension plan was started. The consequence; I own my own home in retirement, and enjoy a pension to pay my way.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    The deacon's prayer: Lord, you keep him humble, and we'll keep him poor.
     
  20. Lil Sister

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    Brother, churches are beginning to use modulars for their meeting places. That way they can add a little as they go; without insurmountable debt.
    Is this "do-able" for your church family? It's something to think about!
    It's not unscriptural for a pastor to "opt out" of receiving regular pay from his congregation. The Apostle Paul did it; making tents to meet his own needs. Of course, he accepted "love offerings" from various churches too. The men who choose to be "tent maker" pastors do so out of the conviction that they want to bless the body of Christ without the pressure of a salary, etc. They also often choose to do this kind of ministry for churches that are small, rural, and and poor.
    A pastor needs to have the attitude of the true shepherd, who lays down his life for his sheep. Not a hireling, who won't work if the pay isn't good enough.
     

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