Do people never hearing about Jesus go to Hell?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Doug Stevens, Aug 15, 2002.

  1. Doug Stevens

    Doug Stevens
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    The Bible clearly says that making Jesus your personal savior is the only way to the Father or to Heaven. Romans also says that there is no excuse for not believing in God becaus ethe handywork of God is clearly seen in the many things God has created on Earth. I understand that no one has an excuse for not believing in God. However, without a missionary of someone to teach heathens in remote parts of the world about Jesus, then I can't see any way they can make the quantum leap to believe in Jesus because an understanding of Jesus is something no one can figure out without someone explaining it to them. The unbelievers love to poke fun at us Christians by saying that we believe that our God is cruel enough to send someone to Hell even if they haven't heard about Jesus. I'm seeking advice that I can use to counter their argument. Do you have constructive advice you could send me?
     
  2. Pete Richert

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    Everybody deserves hell. It is an incorrect statement to say that it is not fair if people who have not heard of Jesus to go to hell. What is not fair is that anybody (whether they believe in Jesus or not) should go to heaven! It was not choosing or not choosing Jesus that originally condemned us, it was our corrupt and sinfil nature. And that corrupt and sinfil nature is embedded in everyone, everywhere, in every time. It is dishonoring to God to put Him on the stand and declare Him Rightousness or not depending on whom He chooses to save. We should be putting ourselves on the stand and gasping in utter amazement that we could be counted as righteous at all.

    That said, it is a very difficult doctrine to accept, and my heart goes out for those who still haven't heard of the wonderful news of Jesus Christ. It should lead us to have all the more zeal for spreading the gospel to the ends of the earth. Supporting missionaries and becoming them ourselves, sharing with our friends and coworkers, praying, praying, praying.

    As for dealing with non Christians, I know what you mean, it can be difficult. Usually what I find is that their problem is not so much that they care whether it is fair if everybody has an equal shot, but that they don't believe they are sinfil and in need of help to begin with. If they were, they would probably be seeking mercy. It seems in America, I never get the opportunity to argue that Jesus is the only way (with respect to other religions, beliefs, etc) but that anyone needs a way to begin with.
     
  3. onevoice

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    Quote:
    It is an incorrect statement to say that it is not fair if people who have not heard of Jesus to go to hell. What is not fair is that anybody (whether they believe in Jesus or not) should go to heaven.
    -------------------------------------------

    I agree. If those who never heard of Jesus went to Heaven, why tell anyone?? They would be better off. Romans 10:9-10 tell us that unless you confess and believe you are going to Hell. For this reason it is VERY important that we, as Christians, live "mission minded". We must go, we must tell, for if we don't they will perish . . . and their blood will be on OUR hands.

    [ August 15, 2002, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: onevoice ]
     
  4. post-it

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    I agree also that not having heard the word, means hell. Of course I also believe hell is just the annihilation of the body and spirit. Otherwise it would be unfair for God to send people to eternal torture simply for not being in the right place at the right time.

    I also don't want to get into any discussion on what hell is or is not, I just wanted to add in that it does make perfect sense for God to allow people to go to hell (a natural death) without it being unfair.
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    Doug,
    Consider these thoughts:
    Titus 2:11 " For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, "

    This verse teaches us that all men will be visited by the grace of God that bringeth salvation. There will not be one man, woman, boy, or girl who will stand before God not having an opportunity to be saved.

    Luke 3:6 " And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. "
    This verse teaches the same principle. But, perhaps the clearest verse on the subject is this:

    John 1:9 " That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. "

    Of course we know that this is referring to Jesus. He lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    Imagine a man in the the darkest corner of South America or Africa who has never seen a preacher, never seen a Bible, never heard the name of Jesus spoken. This man stands on a mountain and beholds the handiwork of God in the stars or in the beauty of nature and thinks to himself, "I wonder how all this came to be?" That is light! As he responds to the light, the Lord gives him more light. He acknowledges a higher power, acknowledges his dependency on that higher power, places his trust and faith in the "Creator" and he is saved.

    Mt 4:13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
    14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
    15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
    16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up .
    (KJV)

    This is the fulfillment of Isaiah 9:1-2

    Hope this helps,

    Pastor Bob
     
  6. Brother Adam

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    Well I look at it this way, if it is soley in our hands as to whether or not God is able to reach His children, then there goes the idea that it is only by God that we are saved.

    Now God definitely uses people to reach others, but that by no means has to be the only way he can reach someone. Who understands the ways of God? Who can think on His plane?

    I really think it is as easy as putting our trust in the Lord that He will do what He said He will do.

    Bro. Adam
     
  7. tyndale1946

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    Adam said:
    "AMEN"...Brother Glen :D

    [ August 15, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    Brother Adam ?!!!? :confused:

    I thought you were ..... Arminian. He ! He ! :D
    Just kidding.
    Excellent post, IMHO.
     
  9. Justified

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    Doug,

    God said He wills that none should perish. Along with what was posted already, tells me that God is not dependent on man alone to spread His Gospel. His ways are not our ways. With God, nothing is impossible. ;)

    Having said all of that, this does not shuck our responsiblity to reach all peoples with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, either! :D

    "It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version ;)
     
  10. Grasshopper

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  11. Baptist Believer

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    NOTE: I'm extremely tired so all my sentences may not make complete sense...

    Not trying to nit-pick, but the Bible doesn't use the lingo "personal savior". Having faith in God is the link to salvation. Jesus is the exclusive way of salvation (John 14:6), even if you don't know anything about him (like Abraham and the other Old Testament saints). In the gospels, Jesus primarily called people to "follow" Him, not pray a prayer or join a church (although prayer and church life should be a part of every believer's life).

    That is very true. Creation itself stands as a testament to the Creator. No evolutionary theory or philosophy can break the instinctive knowledge that "something" exists instead of "nothing" existing. Since "something" exists, how did it begin? The answer is always a creator or creators.

    For thousands of year the people of the American continents had no explicitly Jewish or Christian witness that we know of... But the same evidence of God that condemns those who won't believe can be enough to drive people to have faith in the true Creator of the universe if the Spirit draws them. When people respond to the truth of God, God will provide more truth and intuitive understanding. Therefore, as Abraham came to faith in God without any sort of gospel presentation, scripture, temple ceremonies, or Law, people in remote places who have not had the opportunity to hear the gospel can believe as well.

    Unfortunately, most people find it easier to ignore the evidence, so Christians are called to spread the full message of the gospel to all the world so that everyone can come to a better understanding of God and grow in grace and faith.

    I don't believe that argument, but what excuse does the scoffer have? They have heard much more than the distant pagan... they are responsible to God for what they have done with the truth given to them.

    Just to stave off some of the accusations, I am not a universalist and I do believe Jesus is the only way to God. It's just that not everyone has all the information. A person who is a true believer in the Creator will quickly receive the gospel when they hear it because it will be confirmed by the Holy Spirit living and working in them. They will intuitively know the truth ("heart knowledge") and will receive the "head knowledge" when it comes.
     
  12. cojosh

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    God has never been dependant on human beings but has a chosen method by which the lost are to come to Christ. This method is through His born again children.
    Romans 10:13-15
    13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    This clearly states: NO PREACHING, NO HEARING!
    NO HEARING, NO BELIEVING! NO BELIEVING, NO CALLING! and finally NO CALLING, NO CONVERSION!

    We are co-labouers with Christ. If we don't tell the lost the good news then no one will. God isn't going to send a bolt of lightning out of heaven to convict someone of their sins. He uses His Word and it is our responsibility to spread it. If we don't , no conversions. That's the only way. God isn't going to give us a commandment to make us think that we're really doing something that we're not. I believe the Bible teaches that we'll be personally held responsible for not fulfilling His commission. The Holy Spirit uses what we say & do to persuade the hearts of men, women, & children. As for the people that have never heard the name "Jesus" , I don't see how they could possibly be sure of a home in heaven without having an experience with the Saviour. Missionairies go "so that they can know" that they have a home in heaven as apposed to thinking they might.
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    While I agree with the sentiment of your position, the problem is that the Bible teaches something a little different. Abraham was saved without any sort of written word from God. People today are still sometimes saved without the written word of God. The Spirit usually uses the written word, but is not dependent upon it.

    [ August 15, 2002, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  14. cojosh

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    Baptist Believer wrote:

    While I agree with the sentiment of your position, the problem is that the Bible teaches something a little different. Abraham was saved without any sort of written word from God. People today are still sometimes saved without the written word of God. The Spirit usually uses the written word, but is not dependent upon it.
    __________________________________________________
    The reason Abraham was saved without any written word from God is beacause there wasn't any. God spoke verbally to Abraham because he was God's chosen vessel by which the nation of Israel would be born. God initiated His covenant with Abraham to fulfil His prophesy. Abraham heard the word of God and acted upon it. People in our time get saved the same way. They hear the word of God and choose to accept it as Truth or to dismiss it. The only thing different is that we are doing the preaching because our Lord has been so kind to give us written copies of His Word. It's His chosen method here in the Church Age. It's all there in the NT.
     
  15. C.S. Murphy

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    If you didn't want to get into this discussion why did you mention it, but since you have. I would like to know if anyone else here agrees with post its view of hell as he stated above.
    Murph
     
  16. cojosh

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    Baptist Believer wrote:

    The Spirit usually uses the written word, but is not dependent upon it.
    __________________________________________________

    Actually, the Spirit is dependant on the Word of God. The Bible says that the Spirit came not to speak of Himself but of Christ. The Bible is the Christ Book. OT points towards Christ's Incarnation. The Gospels tell of His ministry on Earth. The Epistles of His relationship with the Church. Revelation of Jesus Christ. If the Bible is God's True Holy Word then the Holy Spirit has no choice but to depend upon every single word. God holds His Word up higher than His name. The Holy Spirit can use many different factors to affect lives but when it comes to salvation the Truth has to be delivered, preached, proclaimed, etc.
     
  17. cojosh

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    I don't know much about the doctrine of annihilation, but it seems to contradict the teachings of Christ.
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    If that's true, then how did the Spirit work before the scripture was written?

    But the Spirit is also part of the Triune God. The Spirit "speaks" God's truest words upon our heart. The Spirit inspired the writers of the scripture to write the word of God. Why do you insist that the Spirit is somehow limited by a person having the written word of God or the written word spoken by a human being in order to enlighten someone. Again, what about Abraham, the patriarchs and Moses? God certainly spoke to them and they witness to us. They were certainly "saved".

    That's an interesting statement. Where do you get that idea?

    Certainly God (the Father, Son or Spirit) can bring the truth directly to us if we do not have access to the written word. Even when we do have the written word, God still comes to us and we experience Him in a way that is distinct from our Bible reading experience.
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    True, there wasn't a written word available to him -- it didn't exist.

    Exactly. That's what Paul was teaching in Romans and Galatians.

    True. But the word of God does not have to be written. God can and does speak to people who do not have access to the written word even today. Missionaries tell stories about this. My mother in many ways came to faith without even knowing a Bible existed.

    It truly is a kindness. It keeps us from going off on our own tangents or being deceived by contrary impulses and voices we may hear while we are trying to discern God's voice.

    God works in ways and methods we don't understand. The Spirit moves like the wind, we don't know where the Spirit has come from or where the Spirit is going... (John 3)
     
  20. post-it

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    Because I have argue this view to the nth degree on earlier posts. A search of the word annihilation should retrieve about half my arguments on the subject... if you want to know what others think, they pretty much slammed my view on this subject too. Seems like most Brothers/Sisters believe exactly what they have been taught without question. Of course, to question tradition is bad; and they learned that too.
     

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