Do the poor have any responsibility ?

emphasis mine

Typical liberal response! "I can tell you what to do with your money/talents/time/etc/etc better than you."

1 Do you know---: implying that he does not?????
2 I suppose---- : you would do well to get some facts before "supposing"; do you have any? (Pertinent to this case, I might add sans any rabbit trails)
3 You would-----: now you've quit supposing, and started prophesying!

Better rein in your ego, m'friend, bad trouble ahead if it gets too much outa control.

I gave him money when he needed it. Remind you of a story in the Bible? (Yep! See previous post by Andy T.)
Nice touch, the pharisees would be proud of you!

 

So, you don't have any support for your position.

 

I chose to use Christ as my example. I have no idea who you're following. Probably some radical far right politian. Maybe Ann Coulter? That's your choice.

 

Where do I claim to be a better Christian than anyone else? You came up with that perspective not me.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

Brother Curtis, I've been thoughtfully thinking about this since I first read your post, because this is a serious subject, imo, relative to the very real presence of need in our communities and in the world, and the very real mandate of Scripture to love our neighbor as ourselves: and admonition to us to not live in our excesses while tolerating and leaving another in need.... if we have 2 coats and see another (in need) without one...give...... and so forth.

I think the failure I see in the government welfare program is the fact that I don't believe the purpose of government is to relieve people of their own responsibility: I see the purpose of government to set up and enforce laws which limit or prevent criminal activity such as stealing, killing, maiming, giving false testimony.......in other words the enforcement or rule which encourage people to live in community with each other peacably....... this does not require agreeably on all issues.... but with a civil courtesy and respect . I see the government as protector from enemies to its borders and the safety of its citizens. Most everything else I see as either a function of individual responsibility or collective responsiblity belonging to the needs and resources of the community in which the need presents.... or perhaps, at the max. a function of the state to intervene and provide guidance and finacial balance to the communities within.

I see no mature person as being removed from responsibility for himself or those members of his household: True, we are created equal in our standing before God, but we are not equal in opportunity, nor talents and gifts, nor in birth order, nor in intelligence, nor in access to education, nor in the economy of the household in which we are born, nor in health, nor in position in the community, or the affluence of community in which we are born: We're not equal in adversity, nor in the foundations which give strength and vision to some, nor in our support systems or lack thereof. Nevertheless, we are responsible for our own choices, and how we use the resources we do have.

Three generations of welfare (its hard for me to realize.... that I've lived long enough to know that once there was no welfare as its become known today..... except maybe for the extremely poor.... and government help was in the form of 'commodities' like cheese, grain, powdered milk, and peanut butter....) sounds like a problem of enabling dependancy. Children raised in such dependancy are often mentored by their parents into dependancy.

If a person under the age of 18 can be identified as having some disorder, (depression, bi-polar, ADHD, personality disorder) which might have difficulties but could function in society.... is raised and identified in a household already dependant on government aid.... the chances are higher that the traits they exhibit and the poor mechanisms for coping with life are so poor or absent and they are already 'documented in the system', that they will qualify as disabled and get aid for living....and that easier than those who work and disabled later in life. Marriage and having off spring are considered 'quality of life' issues whereby they are enabled in continuing the cycle: Quite a contrast when one considers that social services is also a component of the agencies responsible for removing children from parents homes because they home school, or use some form of corporal punishment, or because they choose alternative medicine to alopathic, or refuse or delay vaccination of their children.

One may correctly ask "Do these programs really serve the needs of the people....which should also include redeeming qualities of helping to take them from need to independance? Or do these programs serve to increase the need and demand for more services and secure the jobs of these social workers employees.... and the expansion of their agencies.... and the expansion of the political impact and philosophies which are invasive to our societies ideals? I think the 'war on poverty' is loosing by design.

(Just like the 'war on terror' is increasing the impact on our rights.... because "they' attacked us because 'they' hate freedom"..... and the 'war on cancer' is fighting cancer successfully on some planes but the majority of our tax payer dollars going into CA research is going for the extention of life and 'quality of life' but not for identifying causes and cures... Actually, when only about 1 in 30 people might die of cancer at the turn of the 20th century....Now about 1 in 3 will be diagnosed with CA. And we already see that certain 'suspect' causations appear to be sacred cows of the 'industry' which funds CA research which prevents researching them and publishing data to the public: "Sacred cows" are such areas as repeated exposure to ionizing radiation to identify growths when there are now screening procedures with high reliability for those in low risk groups: Researching the safety and the push to increase vaccine development and use in the absence of significant outbreaks, or to a low risk population.... when vaccines are developed from a witches brew which uses animal tissues from chickens, monkeys, pigs, horses, and fetal cells of abortion tissues... sometimes contaminated with viruses and mixed with chemical stabilizing preservatives which contain aluminum, or mercury, or other heavy metals which are toxic to our systems; Sacred cows such as reassuring th e public that there is no danger from micro-wave communication towers or use of cell phone.... while blocking research into the recent increases in brain cancer ....Johnny Cochran's lawyer believed cell phone use caused his rapid brain tumor and quick demise.)

I remember my deceased husband telling me of returning to visit his widowed mother in his late teens after having run away from home in New Jersey when he was 14y/o: She was living in government restricted housing for the poor and would not (make that could not) even let him sleep overnight because of restrictions placed upon her occupancy. At the time, course he was young and felt her concern as rejection: If it hadnot been for such restriction placed upon his mom by government.... a sleep-over might have helped to reestablish a mother-son relationship which might have progressed to her independance of government helps and restrictions.

Think it was Jefferson who said a government big enough to give the people what they want is big enough to take what they have.

3 Generations..... and no leadership into responsibility: No wonder I go to a very clean laundromat... and find the owner recently revamped the bathroom... but, as it is not on his surveillance camera, patrons have entered the bathroom and burned out the new ceilling, and marked on the pristine walls and torn the paper holder down. Some one doesn't realize responsiblity means taking care of what another provides as well as taking care of one's self. It's so sad....and sadder still that more are rising to defend poverty instead of truely helping the poor!

 

Our republican form of government exists to protect our liberties Bro. when it started protecting us from outside threats it became the biggest threat to those liberties.

If our republic was working as designed outside threats would hardly ever be heard of and the percentage of Americans either poor, lazy and or just "out of work" would be so small nobdy would bother to debate it.

Meanwhile back in the real world...our "government" is spending and losing track of some four trillion dollars near as I can figure recently on waging global warfare on "outside threats" it helped to create in the first place by not following the rules (Constitution).

Govt is there to steal your property, spend it foolisly, fain ignorance and ineptitude when confronted. It has no problem protecting itself by force and coercion and growing fat on your labor but when it is needed to "protect" you? Ha! Called in sick or stupid that. "and you can't do nuttin about it...na na na na na!"

I do believe the poor have a responsibility to help themselves and we have the responsibility of helping those who can't, not won't or would rather not. Govt should be kept out the loop limited to doing it's job protecting and defending the constitution and thus our liberties not providing for our every need that's our jobs. Well...on second thought thats Every Mart's job now isn't it?

 

Yes it does.

Pharisees praying loudly on streetcorners.

 

SDo now you're saying that you're superior to me and can call me all sorts of names simply because I talked about helping a Christian friend of mine? You'd beyyer take a hard look at what principles are guiding your life "my friend."

 

emphasis mine

I enumerated the objections I had to your post; please do likewise! Thanks.

1 "--you're saying that you're superior to me--" ?????
2 "--call me all sorts of names--" ????
3 "--because I talked about helping a Christian friend of mine--" ????

I can't see that any of the preceding applies, but if so please show me how/where; and if so, I apologize, as that was certainly not my intent.

 

You tell me. What would you have done in this situation?

 

I just think we could help the poor best if we all got together and worked towards restoring our republic. The global empire we're trying to maintain now is killing us all a bit at a time and the poor always get it the worst. At the rate we're going we're all going to be in the poor house real soon.

We have the ways and means right in our hands to make a huge difference for everyone on this planet. Think about it. If we all stopped arguing politics and just demanded that our public servants uphold the oath of office form the town level to D.C. the number of poor would decrease dramatically.

Guess I'm getting sick of seeing people so lost in all the "collectivist" details that they can't see we've had the answer to most of our problems right in our hands for well over 2 hundred years. Crying shame isn't it?

Sorry didn't mean to get mushy there Bro.

 

When it comes right down to who's to blame it's our own fault Bro.

We've been shirking our responsibility to our fellow man for so long now everyone on the earth is paying for it.

The buck stops with us, no one else.

 

Actually, I asked you the wrong question. Do you think our churches could support the truely needy in the U.S? The truly needy actually represent a much larger percentage of those receiving federal aid than most think.

My answer to this question would be no. If they had they recourses would they do it? This would be my much preferred approach much better than using federal aid. Unfortunately, again, I'd say no.

That being the case, what do you think should happen to my friend?

BTW, you can insult me all you want but when you start insulting my dog I'll get mad.