Do we have to worship on Saturday not Sunday?

stoning for adultery under the civil laws of the Theocracy - oops! But it is "still wrong" to commit adultery. Simply pointing out that the penalty for adultery was stoning in the OT -- does not mean that adultery is now ok.

Red herring - but why do it Rev?

In Christ,

Bob

 

The strange things people do when it comes to the subject of Christ the Creator's own Holy Day made "FOR mankind" (and not mankind MADE FOR the Sabbath) -

But no need to worry because in the "New Heavens" and "New Earth" ALL MANKIND "shall come before Me to worship FROM SABBATH to SABBATH" says the Lord -- Isaiah 66.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Wrong -- but I will play your game anyway.

"And BLESSED the Seventhy-day and ...oops it was really Tuesday!!

Gen 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.[/quote]

So that was Tuesday you say???

Then in Exodus 16 God says "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" -- and THAT was the SAME Tuesday -- cause God sure would not forget which day He made Holy -- now would He?

THEN in in the NT when Christ went into the Synagogue on SAbbath "As was His Custom" welll - THAT was Tuesday too -- unless of course "THE LORD" of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 - FORGOT which day HE made Holy.

So THEN the only way for this STILL to work out is to claim that EVERYONE TODAY is wrong about the Julian Calendar and the fact that NO DAYS have been lost in the weekly cycle since the first century.

In fact whenever we have leap year - we STILL lose NO days in the weekly cycle even though we INSERT a day every four years.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Gen 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.


God said the OT Sabbath was pointing BACK - as a MEMORIAL of His Creative Act!

But chemnitz says

There is no "foreshadowing" mentioned in Gen 2:3 - regarding salvation for unfallen - perfect - sinless mankind.

NOR do we find it in Exodus 20:8-11 where we DO find the SUMMARY of Gen 1-2:3 and the MEMORIAL principle for Christ the Creator's Sabbath day - repeated.

Then of course we have "All mankind comes before Me to Worship FROM SABBATH to SABBATH" in the New Heaven and New Earth - in Isaiah 66.

And why not? "The Sabbath was MADE FOR mankind" Mark 2:27.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

Outside of seventh daYou are the one insisting that it is a specific day of the week. Not to mention by the time you get to the book of Acts the only people observing a specific Sabbath Day are the Jews.
[/quote]

Is this the part where you "did" or "did not" read Acts 13??

And then there is the incredibly obvious point - the 7th-day Sabbath in scripture NEVER has the meaning "pick any day you like in 7 and make your OWN day Holy".

In Christ,

Bob

 

God may have known the day, but he did not give a name for it other than the sabbath or day seven. You can quote the julian or whatever other calendar made by men you wish. Yet, you still have not proven that Saturday (day of hommage to the god Saturn) = the Sabbath day on God's calendar. Nevertheless, I am free in Christ to treat all days alike instead of holding one day in higher esteem than the others. Every day I live is God's and I will live every one of them for him.

 

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I am fully persuaded that I should esteem and worship on every day except the Sabbath. I will consider the Sabbath my day of rest, therefore I will not work myself so hard by worshipping on that day (preaching, teaching, etc.)
DHK

 

Rom 14 could be spun and eisegeted to "imagine" that there was a debate in the first century about going to church 7 days a week and resting on all 7 days.

No such debate existed. But it is a convenient "Story" to tell if the point is to misdirect.

The "actual" issue was the REAL issue of looking at the REAL list of "observed days" - the list presented in Lev 23. One man OBSERVED one ABOVE the others while others OBSERVED ALL of them.

proof:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=866469&postcount=53

But if you are willing to completely ignore exegesis and simply spin the Bible around to justify the position "I am fully persuaded that I should esteem and worship on every day except the Sabbath" Then I can see why that method would be attractive.

God said
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

man-made-tradition says
"I am fully persuaded that I should esteem and worship on every day except the Sabbath"

It also says "pick any day in seven that YOU like - pay no attention God's statement that THE SEVENTH-day is the Sabbath OF THE LORD YOUR GOD".

Then of course we have "All mankind comes before Me to Worship FROM SABBATH to SABBATH" in the New Heaven and New Earth - in Isaiah 66.

And why not? "The Sabbath was MADE FOR mankind" Mark 2:27.

[SIZE=+0]man-made-tradition says [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]"I am fully persuaded that I should esteem and worship on every day except the Sabbath"[/SIZE]

So let each one be persuaded - taking their stand either on the word of God or man-made tradition. It is after all a free will system - I have always said that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

#1. God "may have known" the day??? God "might be very intelligent"??

#2. He gives day-seven the honor of a name "The Sabbath". I agree. I call it that too.

#1. What I "stated" is that MAN has not LOST the weekly cycle from the days of Christ - the first century - the time of the Julian Calendar. If you doubt that - we can have that simple and obvious point explained in triplicate -- I just can't believe there is anyone around that is not aware of this basic fact. Let me know if you would like that myth debunked again.

#2. The point I made is that ONCE you are willing to deny Christ the Creator authority in the NT when HE observed the Sabbath and claim that "He did not know what day it was" -- THEN you can make your point -- that even though WE OBVIOUSLY know which day of the week it was - on the Julian Calendar in the first centry - that was the SEVENTH day (you know the day BEFORE Christ rose from the dead - hence AGREEMENT between all Christians and all Jews on this SAME weekly cycle) -- even though we KNOW the day we can "suppose" that even pre-Cross Christ the Creator fumbled the ball not knowing the actual day of HIS OWN making.

But that would be "inserting" man-made-misdirection into the text because no such "forgetting" is indicated in scripture.

As Romans 14 points out - one man OBSERVES one day (in the Lev 23 list) ABOVE another and another man OBSERVE ALL of those days.

Proof:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=866469&postcount=53


Yet man-made tradition will find a way to spin that Bible point into "one man OBSERVES all days of the year as worship days not working any of them -- and another picks one ABOVE another" -- a totally made up scenario by those who seek to find a way of escape from the day MADE FOR mankind. "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship says the Lord" Isaiah 66.

In Christ,

Bob

 

That's all fine and dandy Bob but I do not see any Biblical evidence that our Saturday is the Seventh Day. No matter which day is observed it is not I who makes it holy but the Lord, which He does for us through His word.

Bob you got to try harder, they didn't go there so much to observe the Sabbath as to reach out to the Jews who were gathered there.

Well if it wasn't left up to choice why wasn't it spelled out? And while calendar days of the week have not been changed on the calendar the number of physical days has due in part to leap years. In addition, I find your extrabiblical proofs lacking, you only go back to the first century. Which hardly conclusive since you would need to actually go back to the week of creation to show preservation of transmission, but I am confident your efforts to do so will be as futile as the scientist who waste their time trying to prove the big bang.

You may continue with your once a week rule following, and I will continue being refreshed and renewed by the Lord everyday.

 

if you've done your research - the jewish sabbath - when converted to any of the different calendars - whether julian or caesar or what have you - the jewish sabbath has ALWAYS landed on the saturday.

 

Hmmm... Who's to say the Jews did not adjust their calendar to fit the predominate means of determine time?

If you are going to make a claim for a specific day you are going to have to point out a verse that names the specific day, not overlay traditional days of observance on the Bible.

 

Driving to church is kindling a fire, that is unless YOUR car runs on air!:laugh: ROFLOL:laugh:

Gas or electric heat in a home is kindling a fire. I am an HVAC journeyman, I know these things.

I also noticed that you did not deal with the Scripture at all. If sabbatarians want to honorthe Sabbath then they MUST keep it according to Scripture. Remember, if you offend (the law) in ONE point, you are guilty of all. Therefore, while your arguments may sound all pious, they in fact are a return to Judaism.

I also noticed that you did not even DARE to address the fact that the Sabbath is a SIGN between Isreal and God. The GENTILEchurch is not even there. WE ARE IN GRACE....!!!!:BangHead: :BangHead:

 

Quote:
or are you one of those heretics that believe the church is Israel?

-----------------------------------------------

Hey, I am one of those "heretics" that believes the church is the Israel of God.....doesn't everyone?

I worship on the Lord's Day, otherwise known in modern society as Sunday.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Very true -

The calendar now in use, a Roman calendar, has been changed, but that change did not break the weekly cycle.
Prior to its change, it was called the Julian calendar, because it originated at the time of Julius Caesar, 45 B.C. -- several years before the birth of Christ. The one change was ordered by Pope Gregory, and since then it has been called the Gregorian calendar.
The Julian Calendar was imperfect -- it inserted leap years too frequently. Back in 45 B.C. they supposed the year was exactly 365 1/4 days long, and to take care of the extra one-fourth day each year, added a day to the month of February every four years. But it was found later the year was 12 minutes and 14 seconds shorter than this. Consequently, by the time of Pope Gregory, the calendar had drifted TEN DAYS away from the seasons. The Spring equinox, consequently, fell on March 11th, instead of March 21st.
To correct this, ten days were dropped from the calendar. But they were dropped only from the number of days in the MONTH not from the number of days in the WEEK. A man named Lilius proposed the method which was adopted in making the change. In the Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, p. 251, under article "Lilius," explaining this change, we read:
"Thus, every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz., the abandonment of the seven-day week."
In the Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 740, article "Chronology," we read:
"It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus, when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October. So in England, in 1752, Wednesday, 2 September, was followed by Thursday, 14 September."
Since the Catholics changed the calendar, the Catholic Encyclopedia is the best historical authority there is on the question, and is proof positive.

But "suppose" imagine some "that we CHANGE the days of the week EACH leap year AND we change the days of the week at the time of the Gregorian Calendar change". Hmm sounds like a fun game... to suppose in that way.

But aside from entertainment - what would be the point?

OHHHHH yes now I remember it is "yet another way to try to get around Christ the Creator's own Sabbath Day". --

I keep forgetting that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Is the part where we "pretend" that Christ the creator had NO CLUE which day He was "Lord of" in Mark 2:28 PRE-Cross - OR is this where we "pretend" that God abolished the Sabbath BEFORE the Cross and was late in teaching others to do the same??

:BangHead:

Ex 16 "Tomorrow is the Sabbath". And God caused the manna to fall on SIX days (week day 1 through 6) but NOT on THE Seventh-day.


Imagine how confused the people were when they ran across someone claiming he did not know which day was "Sabbath" so he was going to have to go without eating each 7th day "by surprise" as he continually "forgot" week after week WHICH day was the 7th.

Why "pretend so much" to get your "no such thing as a day that is actually KNOWN" idea??? :type:

In Christ,

Bob

 

It is only God that Can make a day Holy.

God says "TOMORROW is the Sabbath" then He only give manna for SIX days. He does not "solicit your advice" as to which SIX days to have manna. Much as you may have been thinking he left this up to you - he actually picked the day all by Himself.

And then giving it to mankind in Gen 2:3 it was EASY for mankind (made on the SIXTH day) to see the FIRST day of REST being the FIRST sabbath and the FIRST fill day following his creation.

It would have been "hard to miss".

Why Keep "pretending" that God says "A seventh day of your choosing is Sabbath"??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hint: "READ" Acts 13. There you will find "Sabbath AFTER Sabbath" meetings in church with BOTH Gentiles and Jews.

There you will find the JEWS rejecting the Word of God and the Gentiles having to come back without them - waiting for THE NEXT SABBATH to come so they could gather to hear the Gospel EVEN though the Jews were totally rejecting what the GENTILES were eagerly awaiting to hear SABBATH after SABBATH.

Pretty hard to miss.

But what if the intent is to "spin this" away from these "inconvenient details" -

You mean like this

"From Sabbath to Sabbath SHALL ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66.

"The Sabbath was MADE FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27

Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice how different this is from "Remember any old day out of seven that you feel like remembering"??

Anybody??

I see. So Mon Feb 28 is sometimes followed by Wed Feb 29 instead of TUESDAY Feb 29 (in your little world)???

I am curious has to how OFTEN that happens for you. Because I think we can find a way to clear that one up.

I see - and that is because "God was soooo busy He forgot" by the time HE said "TOMORROW is the SABBATH" Exodus 16

And if not then -- then for SURE He was wayyyy too distracted by the time God the Son - says He "IS LORD of the SABBATH" that was MADE for mankind Mark 2:27-28 -- way tooo distracted to still KNOW which day was Sabbath.

Yet we find that the NT explicitly tells us "According to His custom" He would attend worship services each Sabbath -

As did Paul.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Bob you are so funny. You so desperately want a rule to follow you will grasp at any flismy straw you can find.

But which was the seventh day it does not say. Did God count from creation or did he count from Mount Sinai or from the time he starting giving Manna? Doesn't say so my point still stands which day of the week as we known them was it? Good luck proving it.

Haha, you funny no leap year does change names but it does change in a numerical fashion which day is going to be the Seventh day when just counting days as God appears to be doing.

Back to Acts, did you get so excited you the word Sabbath you forgot to read the surrounding verses. They went not so much out of keeping the Sabbath but to go where they knew Jews and Scripture familiar Gentiles were gathered in significant numbers.

OH btw Christ is not the creator that is the Father, but he was also know for following customs that did not conflict with God's word and everybody agree on a Seventh does not conflict, but that does not set it in stone which day must be accepted.

And if it were made for man is it really a big deal if man picks which seventh day?

 

Chemnitz you are so funny!! :BangHead: Thanks for that joke.:type:

As has been pointed out - IF you CAN make the argument that God "forgot" which day Sabbath was when He said "TOMORROW IS the Sabbath" Ex 16 -- thenn prove it instead of merely assuming the rediculous in favor of man-made tradition over the Word of God!

IF you can show that manna coming down for 6 days and NOT for the 7th was God's way of saying "IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE which day is the Sabbath PICK ANY DAY YOU LIKE" then SHOW It instead of merely assuming the rediculous in favor of man-made tradition over the Word of God!

IF you can PROVE that When Christ said "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" in Mark 2:27 that He had no clue which day HE made holy - then go ahead and SHOW it instead of merely assuming the redicuous in favor of man-made tradition over the Word of God.

After your having imagined that the world lost track of time since the first century and that leap year changes the weekly cycle - I guess I am simply asking that you try being reasonable on this topic - if only for a few minutes.

In Christ,

Bob