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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by SaggyWoman, Jun 20, 2015.
Do you carry your gun to church?
Do I? You may believe what you wish, but I could not possibly comment.
Yes I do. Usually a Sig 226. Sometimes a Kimber 1911.
I don't have a gun; therefore, I cannot carry one to church.
I take a Sword.
It is called concealed carry for a reason.
Springfield Armory .40 Compact.
I don't normally carry, but when I do....
When I did carry a gun, I did not at church. No reason, I just didn't. I do have a concern (looking at some of my friends who do carry) that if something did "go down" at my church there would probably be many children injured/killed as well meaning people forget that a bullet travels until it hits a target. Except for that concern, I don't have a problem with people carrying a gun, even in a church building (I don't see it as a moral issue, I just see many who have been through "training" but are not trained carrying something that once fired can't be taken back).
No, I am not a coward.
Wow, CTB. While I often disagree with you, this response from you was unwarranted, to say the least.
Please understand that just because I personally don't carry a gun that I'm therefore opposed to "having a gun" because I AM NOT!!!
The main reason I "don't carry" a gun is that I'm quite handicapped due to a stroke I suffered in 2011. It's all I can do to get around with a cane. If I were to carry a gun, it'd take me a while to reach for it & then subsequently aim it at the "intended target." By the time it would take me to accomplish all this, WPE3BQL might already "dancing on the golden streets."
My father (1907-1963) was an ardent marksman. As a young person, he taught me how to safely fire both a pistol and a rifle, & I was "fairly good" at hitting the tin cans he'd set up for me.
FWIW, as far back as I can recall (early 1950's) he was an active member of our area's "finest 'game club.'" Often he would allow me to shoot "clay pigeons" at this establishment.
Moreover, the USAF awarded me their "'Expert' Small Arms [i.e., an M-14] Marksmanship Ribbon."
So, WPE3BQL is definitely FOR "packing heat"!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
I don't know if you intended to be insulting or inflammatory but you managed to do both.
How does a person carrying a concealed weapon fit this definition?
I have one weapon and am current looking to buy a second as it's a gun like my father's and I like how his shoots better. The rest of the details are my business.
As to carrying one to church, no I don't. But we do have a couple (that I know of) of guys who do.
Are they cowards? Well, one is a Vietnam veteran and the other is a retired policeman who served in a rough city. You all do the math.
Let me tell you a story.....
One Sunday night a few years ago while the choir was singing, a tall and large man dressed in dirty hunter's orange jumpsuit came staggering down the aisle at our church. He was high as a kite. He kept pointing at people in the choir. The choir director could not see him as his back was turned and the choir just kept singing. Then he turned around and with a WILD look on his under-the-influence face started pointed at people in the congregation. I was scared to death.
And no, he wasn't black, if that's going to make anyone think I'm a racist for telling this story. My children's choir at church is majority black, but this man was lily white.
I got the same horribly scared-to-death-can't-move feeling as I got the first time I heard coyotes making their terrifying noises in the middle of the night in my yard. If you don't know what I'm talking about ask any woodsmen you know of. It's an instinctive trembling and inability to move that left over from our ancestors. My uncle lives in the woods and on the river more than he does at home and he said that sound never ceases to jar him. It's not a howl - I can't explain it.
Anyway .... I couldn't move. Every fiber in my being was telling me to jump up and run to that young girl sitting on the inside of the front pew just a couple of feet from him, but I couldn't. All could do was to pray, "God, don't let him touch that little girl."
One of the deacons and one of the congregation couples (who are both retired police officers) simply got up and took him by the arms to escort him out and see if he needed help. When they touched him, he came out swinging. The policeman just quietly grabbed his arms, put them behind his back, and he, his wife, and the deacon escorted him out. Someone had already called 9-1-1 and police were there in just a few minutes. He was armed with two large knives and was high as a kite.
Now, that doesn't happen every day, but what if he had taken those knives out and just started swinging his arms? He would have sliced that child's face. What if he had tried to stab someone?
If someone wishes to bring a concealed carry to church - I have no qualms.
I'm not making light of the tragedy in SC, but what if one of those congregants had possess a concealed weapon - you have to pass classes to carry one.
Perhaps the death toll would not have been as large.
Cowards for carrying a concealed weapon? That's an unfathomable statement to me.
Because they simply are afraid to live life. They must be fearful else they would not need to pack heat. In the long run we all are probably in more danger from members and visitors carrying firearms than from an intruder.
All I can say is that I have been in some very scary places, never carried a firearm and never really needed one. As I said, I figure I am in more danger from good folk carrying arms than from an intruder.
Would be interesting to find statistics on how many people have been killed in churches by people they knew. We know that firearms are responsible for many family members being accidentally killed.
When we understand that there are those who hold to theology which dictates that passivism is required by Christians at all costs such a statement is fathomable.
I in fact can appreciate such theology and have some respect for it. At the same time I do not hold to that theology and find it unnecessary. Especially when it comes to the protection of my family and all loved ones.
The accusation that those who do not hold to that theology and are in fact willing to carry a weapon anywhere including the church means one is a coward shows that one is very passionate about this issue and have allowed that passion to over rule other scripture such as:
Mat_22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation........
Rom_13:8 ........... but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Eph_4:15 But speaking the truth in love,......
1Jn_3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
The Lord knows I have been as guilty as anyone in failing these words.
On August 1, 2010 my then daughter-in-law attempted to murder my wife, our oldest son, our then 4 month-old grandson and myself while we slept. We lived in a quiet rural village where the most heinous crime was vandals uprooting potted plants in front of the bank. She did not use a firearm. Her choice of weapon was fire. Three of us we asleep in our third floor bedrooms and the grandson was in his crib on the first floor next to where his mother should have been. She poured gasoline down the second floor hallway and the stairway leading to the first floor, lit the fire and walked away.
We were trapped for 11 minutes as the house burned down around us. Investigators said it was between 500-600 degrees in our smoke-filled bedroom. I called 911. How cowardly of me.
I wasn't afraid to die but I wasn't in any particular hurry to do so. My wife and I shared a 24 inch wide window seeking clean air. There wasn't much. My son was hanging out the window next to us. The three of us were convinced we were moments away from seeing our Savior face to face. We shared our love for each other and said our goodbyes.
The fire trucks came after what seemed to be a lifetime. The flames had worked their way into our room and with seconds to spare a ladder was brought to our window. I don't seek any sympathy from you but you were quick to call someone a coward saying they were afraid to die.
Using your logic, I should have done nothing and allowed the fire to consume us and await Jesus' promise. I hesitate to use the word foolish but I cannot think of anything else. Your argument is foolish.
I called the fire company because they are the ones who are trained and equipped to handle that sort of emergency. They have the trucks, water, ladders and the other things needed to facilitate a rescue. At that point none of us was able to help ourselves from the peril. We were helpless and would die without outside intervention.
What should I have done? Called one of my elders and said, "Pray with me while I die?"
I cannot speak for all conceal carries but I can speak for the one I am most acquainted. They are, for the most part, folks who would run into the face of danger while most others were fleeing from it. They have the training, equipment and temperament for facing a crisis. You, apparently, have an image of some idiot in a sleeveless camo shirt slinging bullets in every direction. I'm sure they exist but I do not know of any.
So, if I need to be a coward, in your eyes, for calling the fire company instead of dying then I will have to live with that. If a properly trained and equipped individual who will charge into the face of danger is a coward in your book then they will have to learn to live with their cowardice as well
No that is an entirely different situation. A weapon would not have helped you. Quick thinking and wisdom was the answer and thank God action was taken that saved you and yours as you state below.
I am truly sorry for your terrible experience. I would never call you a coward in this situation.
Looking back over my life I think the following is true. If I had been so fearful that I felt I needed to carry a weapon my life would have been much poorer and certainly I would not have followed to some places that I believe Christ led me. I would not have met wonderful and not-so-wonderful people around the world, I would have missed so many experiences, I would not have seen many beautiful and interesting places. My life has been much richer for following him to places and meeting people that many others consider dangerous. I had workmates tell me I was crazy for going some of these places. I do not remember any of my Christian friends saying this. I gave my all to Him many years ago and told God that I would follow where I saw doors open and that I have tried to do. Call me foolish if you believe thus. But I prefer to foolishly follow him when I feel called then not to follow his leading. My guess is that those traveling days are over, but the future is very hard to know. Yes, I would go again if I felt called.
I refuse to let fear dictate my life to me. [That is gently said.] Have there been times that I was afraid. Yes! But I went on anyway, weaponless. Indeed having a weapon would have made some dangerous situations much more dangerous.
So, I'll ask you straight up, CTB. Am I a coward? I'm getting my CCW.
I do not understand your acronym.
Carry concealed weapon. So, since I'm getting my CCW, am I a coward?