Doctorate options...please help!

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Pastor Shaun, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Pastor Shaun

    Pastor Shaun
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    I am a pastor/school teacher, looking to study for a dmin or ph.d. I am interested in going both routes but looking at my options. Please don't ask me my motives; I am just wanting to learn more about ministry and the Bible.


    My original intention was to take a MA in Education and MA in Theological Studies and do LU's DMIN program. However, with my work schedule I don't think this can happen... and I don't know any other accredited seminaries that would let me meet mdiv equivalency like this.

    I am now leaning towards doing the Ph.d program from SATS....

    Do I have options here? I can attend campus but just in the Summer.

    My main interests of study is Theology and Expository Preaching.
     
  2. mandym

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    With Liberty you can do the entire Dmin online. Golden Gate you can do most of it (and they continue to add classes) on line with some intensives. NOBS does 60% online with some intensives and they also continue to add more classes. But either way you will not be able to get to a phd until you have your dmin under your belt.
     
  3. PilgrimPastor

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    Doesn't Liberty require several week long intensives in their D.Min? Or at least a few?
     
  4. mandym

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    They may require a few. But not near what the others do. I doubt it is more than a couple if at all.
     
  5. Pastor Shaun

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    Let me clarify...I don't want to do both a dmin and phd, just trying to decide one of them to do.

    I was told today that all classes in LU's dmin is intensive except 1. That came directly from Liberty.
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    Why do you want to do a doctorate at all?

    (It's a question I ask any student coming to me for advice.)

    I have a PhD in theology (historical) and serve full time in a wonderful local church. Plenty of my friends went and got the DMin. They're happy with it and I'm happy with my PhD.

    So why do you want to do a doctorate at all? I mean the cost is going to be somewhere around $15,000 to $30,000 (or more) for either. What is the big deal about it?
     
  7. revmwc

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    Louisiana Baptist University offers classes via mail, thye are an affliated member of a Accrediting organization that is USDE approved, they haven't applied for full accredidation I believe because of the cost and they offer both degrees. You can send off to them and they will assess you and let you know what you need to take for each and the cost prior to you registering.
    Now whether their non-accredidation - affiliation is what you are looking for not sure but they have both off campus mail courses and on campus courses.
    Just a suggestion.
     
  8. mandym

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    LBU doesn't apply for accreditation because of other reasons. Has nothing to do with money
     
  9. mandym

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    My bad I was thinking of mdiv not dmin.
     
  10. revmwc

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    Well I wasn't sure if they were trying to keep cost down or driven by other reasons. So do you think they are a good school Mandy?
     
  11. preachinjesus

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    Maybe this is gonna sound mean or crass, but anytime I encounter people trying to cut corners on cost and residency I wonder how committed they are to actual education.

    I'm definitely not saying you need to shoot for Ivy League, but why start off your (possible) academic career already down by going somewhere sketchy.
     
  12. Pastor Shaun

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    I'm looking for an accredited seminary.
     
    #12 Pastor Shaun, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2011
  13. revmwc

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    I believe he was speaking of Louisiana Baptist not willing to get accredited. While they aren't expensive they also are not cheap. $98 a course hour all work can be at home via mail or email.

    Judge here.
    And this from BBFI:

    http://bbfi.org/colleges.htm

    welcome to the
    bbfi college index

    Fellowship Owned Colleges

    Baptist Bible College
    Springfield, Missouri

    Boston Baptist College
    Boston, Massachusetts

    Other Approved Colleges

    Louisiana Baptist University
    Shreveport, Louisiana

    Pacific Baptist College
    Pomona, California


    Seems like a recognized school by the BBFI.

    Here is who LBU is affiliated with:

    http://www.abhe.org/affiliation

    Membership status in ABHE is limited to accredited and pre-accredited institutions. Affiliate status is available to credible institutions of biblical higher education seeking to benefit from ready access to ABHE services and networking but presently lacking either readiness or inclination to seek ABHE accreditation. Institutions may be approved by the Board of Directors as ABHE Affiliates upon documentation that they meet the following Criteria/Conditions of Eligibility:

    ■Agreement with the ABHE Tenets of Faith
    ■Evidence that the institution is operating legally within the parameters of the particular province/state relative to faith-based post secondary institutions
    ■Recognition (corporate identity) as a non-profit organization
    ■Presence of a publicly stated/board approved mission statement that has a biblical/ministry formation focus
    ■Commitment to offer education at a post secondary level
    ■Curricular offerings, degrees, and institutional nomenclature consistent with North American higher educational norms
    ■Human, educational, and financial resources commensurate with institutional mission and curricular offerings
    ■Minimum of a two-year history with an identifiable external governing board, administration, faculty, and student body
    ■A letter of reference from an administrator/faculty member of an ABHE member institution or from an ABHE professional staff person affirming the institution’s integrity, credibility, and compatibility with ABHE’s purpose and values
    Commitment to accurate disclosure of accredited status, according to the following stipulations:
    ■An affiliate institution must not portray itself, verbally or in print, as an accredited member of ABHE;
    ■An affiliate institution must not claim accreditation through an agency lacking recognition by the U.S. Department of Education and/or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation;
    ■Affiliate institutions must use the following disclosure statement: [Institution Name] is an affiliate institution of the Association for Biblical Higher Education. As such, it participates in and contributes to collegial and professional development activities of the Association. Affiliate status does not, however, constitute, imply, or presume ABHE accredited status at present or in the future.
    ■Affiliate institutions must notify the ABHE office promptly regarding any changes in directory information (i.e., website, mailing address, instructional location(s), leadership)
    ■Submission of annual affiliate dues; institutions whose annual dues are more than 60 days delinquent will be dropped from the affiliate roster.
    ■Institutions that have been dropped from affiliate status may seek reinstatement after 3 years.
     
  14. preachinjesus

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    I must've missed something...;)
     
  15. Pastor Shaun

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    Preachinjesus,

    I thought you were insulting me. I apologize
     
  16. revmwc

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    I haven't found many universities that are accredited and offer off campus degrees. I am sure there are some but not many.

    http://www.abhe.org/affiliation

    This site list the accredited schools maybe you can find what you are looking for from there.
     
  17. TomVols

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    I've been a student advisor on HS, college, and seminary levels. I also have mentored many ministers who have gone on to get theological education. So, for whatever it's worth:

    1. What do you see yourself doing? What is God calling you to do?
    2. What are your habits? Do you read vast numbers of books? Do you enjoy writing? Is there something you'd like to write about that is like fire in your bones? If so, what is it?
    3. Do you have a good facility with other languages?

    Consider the nature of the degrees. D.Min degrees are largely intensified M.Div type classes, but much more in depth (usually). D.Mins are completed "in ministry," meaning you'll travel to the school for a week or two maybe two - four times for two years. You can usually get into a D.Min with 3 hours of Greek and Hebrew, but some require 6 each. The D.Min culminates in what is usually a ministry project, but a few will allow a thesis or dissertation on more of a practical ministry area. Most D.Min projects now focus on taking something, applying it to a church situation, and reporting the outcomes in the hopes that it can be beneficial to a broader but similar context. Examples: Transitioning First Baptist Church from Sunday School to a Cell Group model; Teaching Youth to appreciate Expository Preaching at Community Baptist Church. D.Min projects are anywhere from 100 pages to 200 pages.

    The Ph.D. is a research degree. You will have seminars much like the D.Min, but these will be on campus and usually semester-long. The Ph.D. is usually a residential degree, sometimes requiring proficiency in Hebrew, Greek, and one or two other languages for admission. The primary emphasis of the Ph.D. is to train scholars and educators, but this can result in an unfortunate stereotype (I know D.Mins who were great profs and I know some PhDs who always wanted to be in church ministry). The culmination of the PhD is the writing and defense of a dissertation. It is more scholarly in nature. Examples: Eschatology of Southern Baptist professors of theology from 1900 - 1950; Organic Inspiration of Scripture in the Dutch Reformed Tradition; The Ordering of the Gospels as Homiletic; Homiletical Applications of the Rhetoric of Kenneth Burke. Dissertations can be 150-250 pages, but I know a surprising number that have barely reached 100 pages.

    John Piper has advised that pastors should get a D.Min, and only get a PhD if they would be certain they (and I'm paraphrasing here) be certain they wouldn't have to read dozens of books that are junk. Well, there's value in junk. But I get the point. You can look this up on You Tube or his Desiring God website.

    Some believe the D.Min is a step past the M.Div. It is the highest professionally oriented ministerial degree. As I said earlier, typically the PhD trains educators, but I think we should have more PhDs in the pulpit.

    I may have missed what your BA/BS is in. That would be helpful. As a general rule, I'd advise that you do the M.Div unless you have an accredited Bible college education. Even then, M.Div is probably your best route. It's roughly 90 hours but will probably get you into either a D.Min or PhD. Since you have interests in preaching and theology (sounds familiar:smilewinkgrin:) then consider doing a M.Div, ThM, and then you can either do a D.Min or PhD and be a leg up either way.

    I hope I've not muddied the water too much.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    Maranatha Baptist Seminary is top-notch ifb school in the north. Very conservative and excellent programs. Might want to look into their offerings. http://www.mbbc.edu/seminary/

    They have just begun their programs, so not sure how the grad programs work. For 40 years they had just an MA/MS program and now expanding.
     
  19. Havensdad

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    Neither cost, nor residency, have anything to do with rigor. Some people are poor...others are involved in missions or ministry pursuits, and cannot relocate.
    As the DOE studies have shown, lack of residency does not in any way diminish the educational value of a program.
     

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