Does Apostle paul reference water or Holy Spirit baptism In bible?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Sep 16, 2011.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    when he states that we are baptised in Christ, is he referring to it being a Spirit baptism by the HS to us, or is it water baptism?

    Verses would be in Romans 6:4/Ephesians 4:5/Col 2:12?
     
  2. DHK

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    There is no one answer. Each verse must be studied on its own merit. Context is key.
     
  3. JesusFan

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    Since we all agree as baptists that water baptism in and of itself has no "intrensic" spirituallness residing in the water, how could it be anything other than refering to the HS in these verses of Apostle paul!
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Before going any further, maybe we ought to define what it means to be baptized into Christ.

    My take is that it means we are identifying with Christ, with his death, burial and resurrection. It is water baptism, the public declaration that we are in Christ.
     
  5. JesusFan

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    that is the outward sign of the inward act already done, "circumcision" by God on our heart...

    that does NOT get us into Body of Christ, THAT is the role of the HS in "Spirit baptism!"

    believe the role of the HS doing that is what Apostle paul referneced in those 3 passages!
     
  6. DHK

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    You are making assumptions based on pre-conceived ideas stated as facts.
    First, who says that the Scripture supports any such thing as that mystical "Body of Christ"? That is just your assumption.
    Secondly, who says that all three of those verses cannot apply to water baptism? They could. Especially Eph.4:5. Even the older scholars like Barnes believe it did. Historically baptism was always "the gateway to the church." It didn't matter if you were RCC, or Protestant of any kind of stripe. You had to be baptized to gain entrance into the church. It was an historic pattern reaching right back to the apostles themselves.

    Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

    There is the pattern, right from the apostles: saved, baptized, added unto the church. That is the way it has been all throughout history. It has never changed. All churches have had the same formula. The only thing that has changed for more liberal churches is that they have changed their definition of "saved."

    But now in more modern years we have come with a new novelty of "spirit baptism" probably a left over from the influence of the Charismatic movement. That is not what the Bible is speaking about.
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    DHK, you have it right. Although context is king, in most contexts, it is water baptism.

    Yes, there is Spirit baptism, but it is not by the Holy Spirit, it is with, or in the HS. The Holy Spirit never baptized anybody. The scriptures clearly say that Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    It is Spirit baptism.......water baptism pictures Spirit baptism. there is no water in romans 6.

    Spirit Baptism happened once at Pentecost...like the shekinah glory entered Solomons temple.....the whole church was Spirit baptized.
    When the Spirit quickens us at regeneration...all that was done back then for us ...is put to our account.
    there are not seperate Spirit Baptisms...One Lord, one faith one baptism.

    Spirit baptism unites us to Christ savingly placing us in union with Him. Our water baptism shows that we are professing outwardly what has taken place inwardly....so even though there is no water baptism per say ...in romans 6.....it is there in our water baptism that portrays the regenerating work of the Spirit in visual form as a God given public confession and identification.
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Sep 17, 2011
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  9. Tom Butler

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    I do think there is water in Romans 6:4. v5 says we are buried in the likeness of his death. That's what water baptism is--the likeness of his death. It's a picture of the gospel. It is a picture in such a way that Spirit baptism doesn't match.

    That's also why I think the baptism in I Cor 12:13 is water baptism. The same baptism that places us into a local church. It makes sense that in one spirit we are water baptized into the body.
     
    #9 Tom Butler, Sep 17, 2011
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  10. Iconoclast

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    Hello Tom,
    This is a big topic.and much to be said....getting late but let me just say this...while I agree that water baptsim is a "likeness' yes....
    the reason I say Spirit baptism is primarily it is Spirit baptism that places us in UNION with Christ. When He died...we died In Union with Him...when he was raised to newness of life....with us IN HIM. Only the Spirit could place us IN HIM.
    In water baptism I believe the scripture teaches several times that the water represents death;
    1] The flood- [1pet 3]

    2] The Exodus through the red sea [1cor 10]

    3]Jonah in the fish mt12;40

    Those who were rightly related to the water by God's provision were saved from death.

    God's provision for us is Spirit baptism.....water baptism pictures this ..yes but it is Spirit baptism that places us In Christ...the place of safety.
    Spirit baptism correctly identifies us with Christ.
    Tom ....I believe only the Spirit can do this...water baptism to follow
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Sep 17, 2011
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  11. JesusFan

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    No, its rather that there was a "novel" idea of the lord JUST having local assemblies of His followers, as the bible clearly states that while there are indeed local branches, they are a part of the Worldwide Churh of Chrsit!
     
  12. convicted1

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    Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Here, I think it is referring to the water.

    Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    Here, I kinda lean more to the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

    Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Here, I think it is water. Mind you, that water does not save, but the water is a sign to the world, that you are now in Him, and are now a CHRISTian.
     
  13. DHK

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    No, JF, I don’t assume facts in existence. I take the Scriptures and show you from the Scriptures how it speaks of the local church, how God is using the local church today. I also show you how there is no mention whatsoever in the Bible of a U-church. You can’t make a declaration of a non-existent entity.
    If it was you would be able to demonstrate that position through Scripture, but you cannot. It is simply your opinion and nothing more. It has no Scriptural support. I believe the Bible not opinions.
    And yet you can’t find that in Scripture can you?
     
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