Does False Teaching matter to Salvation?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Oct 6, 2013.

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  1. Van

    Van
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    In the Calvinist scheme of things, it does not matter whether the gospel is presented accurately or not, no human being is able to respond to it appropriately anyway, because everyone in their natural fallen state suffers from total spiritual inability.

    Then, again according to Calvinism, those individuals that were preselected before creation to be saved are altered supernaturally by irresistible grace, such that they come to Christ. In such a scheme, the message does not matter, only whether or not God chose the foreseen individual for salvation.

    Paul drives an alternate view home in Philippians 1:15-18. Paul says it does not matter if you hear Christ proclaimed from a person motivated by compassion and good will or from a wolf in sheep's clothing, because the message is everything.

    In Matthew 23:13 we read where folks have responded to the message and are actually in the process of entering heaven when they are blocked by false teachers. So either the folks had some spiritual ability or they had received "irresistible grace" but then the grace could not have been irresistible for they were blocked.

    Bottom line, the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

    Beware of False Teachers

    Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....

    2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.

    Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

    Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

    2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

    Clearly then, the gospel of Christ can be corrupted by the traditions of men, and the results can prevent folks from entering heaven. So we should stick with what the Bible says, and not add stuff never mentioned in the Bible, such as the folks of Matthew 23:13 entered heaven later. We are to believe what it says, not believe in things not said. Extrapolations based on logical necessity are fine, but saying one of a number of possible extrapolations is doctrine is unsound.

    Total Spiritual Inability and Irresistible Grace seem to me to be unsound doctrines that present the traditions of men, rather than God's doctrine of Matthew 23:13.

    Limited Atonement, as defined by Calvinism, is another apparent unsound doctrine. Note that 1 Peter 2:1 says the false teachers were bought, teaching general reconciliation rather than limited atonement as defined by Calvinism.

    Christians should stick with what they first believed in, "for God so loved the world (all of mankind) that He gave His one of a kind Son so that whoever (and God has not foreordained who can believe) believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

    Does Calvinism misstate the gospel? Yes in my opinion. The Bible teaches folks have limited spiritual ability, we can discern God from what He has made, and by the practice of sin, we can harden our hearts so we are unable to understand the gospel, like the first of the four soils of Matthew 13. Therefore, I believe the doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability" misstates the gospel.

    The doctrine of Unconditional Election before Creation also misstates the gospel in my opinion. God chooses folks during their lives after they have lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10) based on crediting their faith as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5). Biblical Election is presented in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where God has chosen folks from the beginning of the New Covenant, through sanctification by the Spirit - God sets us apart when He spiritually places us "in Christ,” and through knowledge of the Truth - our faith in Christ. Limited Atonement flies in the face of Christ being the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Irresistible Grace is demonstrated false by Matthew 23:13 where folks who are entering heaven, thus under the influence of the supposed irresistible grace, are turned aside by false teachers.
    In summary, the New Testament teaches Limited Spiritual Ability that can be lost, Conditional election based on God crediting our faith as righteousness, Reconciliation provided for the world, all mankind, and the grace of God's revelation, which can be accepted or rejected.

    I believe Calvinism leads folks away from the simplicity of sound doctrine presented by Christ – whoever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have eternal life. And the impact of that can be observed when we are confronted by Atheists. They often cite the unsound doctrines of Calvinism as reasons they have rejected Christianity.

    In the 1890’s a scholar evaluating 2000 year old paper found in an Egyptian dump, discovered that the language of the common man, found in everyday correspondence, was the same language used in the New Testament. Thus it was written for the common man in a language they could understand. And the lesson we should draw is that our message should be clear putting forth the simplicity of the message and not shrouded in layers of theology.

    If Calvinism is true, then false teachers do not matter. If false teachers result in fewer people coming to a saving knowledge of Christ, as Matthew 23:13 says, then parts of Calvinism are mistaken. According to Matthew 23:13, folks presenting false teachings do not allow those who are entering to go in to the kingdom.

    Does False Teaching matter? The answer from scripture is yes.
     
  2. Rippon

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    Van :"But yes,many of the facets of Calvinism hit the mark." 1/24/12
     
  3. Rippon

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    That's a big lie. You have no shame.
    The "scheme" is something you made up. Calvinists don't believe in God merely foreseeing individuals for salvation.

    We've got an eye on you Van.


    Apparently your understanding of particular redemption is unsound. You define what you want people to think Calvinism is.
    It was in this way that God loved the world of the elect that He gave His one and only son so that the believing ones...
    Of course He has. I know you'd like to erase Ephesians 1:4,11;2 Timothy 1:9 and related passages; but they are still in God's Holy Word.
    shall not experience the second death,but have eteral life.
    Does Van misrepresent Calvinism? Yes,so much so we allow him to ramble on and on post after rotten post disfiguring what Calvinism really is.

    The Scripture doesn't merely speak of us being sick in sick but dead in sin. See Ephesians 22:1 and many other places in Holy Writ.You "were his enemies,separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions" Colossians 1:21 says.
    And quite unsurprisingly your teaching of "limited spiritual ability" is not up to biblical standards by a long shot.

    Conditional election is held by many of the Arminian construct. But we believe that people have no merit in themselves -- salvation is all of God's mercy.
    Propitiation means Christ is the One who absorbs His Fathers rightful wrath against sin and sinner.Christ is the propitiation and the Propitiator. Those who have their sins taken away and are at peace with the Father where there was enmity. Christ did not appease His Father's wrath against those who have and shall enter Perdition.Along with propitiation comes a chain of things that attend a believer's life such as Christ interceding for us.
    Oh, now atheists are now your arbiter of truth!
    Oh, you prefer the milk-theology instead of meat meant for adults.
    That's a bold-faced lie.
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    I'm closing this thread as it to me reprsents a nuclear option.
     
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