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Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by SaggyWoman, Mar 22, 2008.
What differentiates fundamental from other Baptists?
Depends on the other person. Some "Fundies" will consider me liberal; other folks think I am a "Fundie". It really is all in the perspective.
Why would some consider me a liberal: I will use versions other than KJV, I may attend a meeting with pastors from other demonations, I leave room for the "Gap" theory...
Why would some consider me a "Fundie" I believe that "A loving God would send some to Hell" ; I would say some religions are false; I would insist that a person be "dunked" ...
Fundamentelism suggests that one stands on the fundamentals of the faith.
The problem is that so many today don't know how to divide the fundamentals of the faith from personal preferences. Allow me to give you a list of what I believe to be the fundamentals of the faith. Others will no doubt disagree with me but if they add to the fundamentals that I give you here, my experience has been that their additions usually will fall into a sub title of sorts, to one of the fundamentals that I have listed. And being that I am not God it is possible that I have missed something, but if I have I am not aware of it.
1.) The Verbal inspiration of the scriptures
2.) The Virgin birth of Christ
3.) The Vicarious Suffering of Christ
4.) The Victorious Ressurection of Christ
5.) The Visible Return Of Christ
6.) Salvation by grace alone
Again, some may add to or take away from this list but these are the central tennants of the Christian Faith as we see it in the Bible and experience it in life.
That does not mean that there are not a great many other doctrines of monumental Importance, there are. Like the KJVO issue, or Baptismal methodology, or the Doctrine of the Church, or any of a host of others.
All of these are Important issues but my faith doesn't hang on them.
Now with that said, I would consider myself a Fundamentalist, Not because of the fundamentals but rather because I am willing to stand up for them. The reason that there is so much contraversy, is that Independant Baptists have gone out of their way to suggest that if you aren't Independant then you aren't a fundamentalist, which by the way is not true. The issue is not Fundalmentalism at all but rather a proper understanding of the Doctrine of the Church. Unfortunatly the Independant Baptist Movement, of which I would call my self a part, has become more of a monument, built around the feet of some GREAT MEN OF GOD, however they are still only MEN. The up side is that there are some young men coming up in the ranks that want to get back to the MOVEMENT rather than worshiping at the monument. I believe that if the Lord tarries his coming you will see great things from Independants in the next 5 to 10 years. Lord God may we learn the difference between Biblical Seperation and divisionism.
Please don't learn to count Gods youngens out just because you don't agree with them. He didn't!
To answer the OP. No fundamentalism does not equal independent. A fundamentalist is not only one who holds to the essentials but who is willing to contend for the faith, this will lead to at least some degree of separation. How far that separation goes is a matter of debate that will not be settled to Christ returns, but the point is a fundamentalist actually contends for the faith once delivered.
Now in my mind, that makes fundamentalism an idea rather than a movement (Dr. Kevin Bauder of Central Baptist Seminary has some interesting stuff to say about this). And because fundamentalism is an idea rather than a movement, there are Christians of different traditions other than independent Baptist that are fundamentalists. But it would appear that the majority of self-proclaimed fundamentalists are independent Baptists like myself.
Fundamentalism only equals independent to the person that views being an independent Baptist as a fundamental of the faith.
BTW, I think the list above is a good list of hte fundamental of the faith.
If I were to alter the list, it woul not be by much.
The confusion these days is when the KJV bible becomes one of the fundamentals.
Hello I Am New To This Board And Just Wanted To Drop A Line To Everyone Out There In Cyberland And Say Hello, And I Will Be Bringing Up A Topic As Soon As I Can Think Of A Chalanging One To Bring Up, So In The Mean Time Shalom (Hello) And May YAHSHUA HA MOSHIACH' (JESUS THE MESSIAH') Name I Pray Amen And Amen.
Being an Independent Fundamental Baptist myself, I felt compelled to jump in here. I would agree with most of the list from 2serve, only adding the Deity of Christ and it lots of times is lumped in with the "Virgin Birth and Deity of Christ."
I'd also offer a tad of history if I may. In and around 1909 in defense of Christianity to the thought at that time to rising liberalism and skepticism a publication called the "Fundamentals" was edited by R. A. Torrey along with such authors as B.B. Warfield, C.I. Scofield, G. Campbell Morgan, Bishop Ryle, H.C.G Moule, James Orr and R. A. Torrey with others that outlined doctrines, which in essence "drew a line in the sand" for both evangelical and fundamentalist movements throughout the 20th Century. At that time there were 12 volumes that were mailed to more than 300,000 Christians all over the world. Funds ran out and in 1917 the more familiar 4 volume set was published and is in existence today. Known in Independent circles as the Fundamentals of the Faith.
The "Fundamentals" the volumes I am speaking of was the early stage of emerging "Fundamentalism" and the authors were respected Bible teachers and widely recognized conservative Protestant scholars.
Well as you can see it runs deep and for sake of time the "Independents" we are a whole other story. :laugh:
I don't know - like so many other phrases I see on the BB, this one is rare in the UK. I imagine that a "Fundamental Baptist" would be strong on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, but of course people differ in their ideas of what is fundamental.
I am so fundamental that I almost can't stand myself.
Accorcing to Mark Minnick:
The question is
For some of us, our answer lead to our separation from either the Northern Baptist Convention or the SBC.
For others of us, our answer lead to a 35-year-long struggle to save the SBC for Fundamentalism.
Ed, I try to stay out of that discussion. One reason is I'm a Historic Northern Baptist. So, the struggles of my side of the family are\were different from yours.
Yes, Brother Squire - descretion is the better part of valor! I still talk to my Texas Baptist Friends (inclulding some relatives) and Virginia Baptist Friends. I've even been known to talk to an American Baptist or two (on-line, that is). I think I might even have a friend who is a Liberal Baptist -- but then again, she might just be a moderate Deaconess :saint:
Some fundamentalists are trying their best to be obedient to God in every way. While others are nothing more than liberals under the flag of being a Bible believing Christian but living like practical atheists by the fruit they produce.
Interestingly many are disgusted with what kid of local and national news some leaders in the SBC are providing.
It is turning into a different struggle--political and ethical.
That all depends on your definitiion of fundamentalist, something we have talked to death on other threads.
No, I would never say fundamental=independent.
I know many fundamentalists who are not independents and I know several independents who are not fundamental.
Amen, Brother North Carolina Tentmaker -- Preach it! :thumbs:
It's really not a matter of descretion. It's a matter of realizing your battles are not my battles. I suggest reading Beal's In Search of Purity to get an idea of what the Northerners went through in the 20s and 30s. I also recommend Francis Wayland's Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches to get an idea of the foundations of Northern Baptist churches.
I think the main thing that differentiates fundamentalist Baptists from other Baptists is there emphasis on using the KJV.
I could not disagree more - there are tens of thousands, probaly hundreds of thousands, or even millions of fundamentalists who are not limited to the KJV.