Does God Care Where Our Money Goes?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by James_Newman, Oct 7, 2004.

  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    In another thread, discussing the never ending KJV/MV debate, I brought up the fact that the publishing rights to the NIV were owned by Zondervan, and that Zondervan was owned by Rupert Murdoch, who himself is a smut peddler and supports the Catholic church. I got this reply.

    I had crafted a reply, but by the time it was finished the thread had been closed. My question is this: Does God care where our money goes?

    Some may argue that the bible is silent on the subject of bible versions. But is God silent on the subject of stewardship as well? Does it matter where our money goes, as long as we are spending it on 'good' things?
     
  2. just-want-peace

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    I see your point, but where is the line drawn?

    Do you refuse to hire a teen to mow your grass if you know(think) he's going to spend the money immorally?
    Or what if he gives you a price of $50, and a teen you know is a Christian offers to do it for $75, but you had planned to give that extra $25 to missions?

    In essence my point is that, in all likelihood, the money you spend for whatever, is eventually going to be spent for something that you do not approve of.

    Perhaps this is akin to Paul's instructions to eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions, but if the info that the meat was offered to idols, to abstain.

    I'm afraid, though, that if we get too picky, we won't spend any money as there are probably evil expenditures down the line for any purchase.

    Basically, I feel that you will have to let the Holy Spirit guide in this area, since He is in control of all of it anyway!
     
  3. Pastor J

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    I believe we need to be good stewards of the Lords money. I also believe we should be careful where we spend our money and who we are supporting. With that said, I do believe this can be taken way to far. For instance, if we spend money at K-mart, we are supporting pornography at Walden books (owned by K-mart). If we fly on an airplaine, we are supporting the alcoholic companies because they sell liquor on the plane. We can't eat at any restaurant because almost all of them sell liquor. Walmart is out also because they pay poverty wages to foreign employees. Though I would not hire a contractor who was a wicked ungodly man, I also would not hire a Christian that was going to charge more than an unsaved man.
     
  4. TC

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    From the thread mentioned in OP.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    This is not true. The International Bible Society (IBS) owns the text of the NIV and Zondervan only has the printing rights for the NIV - Kind of like the KJV being owned by the crown and certain printers (Cambridge, Oxford, ect.) having the rights to print it. This is just guilt by association. Zondervan printed the NIV long before Harper-Collins publishing (owned by Rupert Murdoch) bought Zondervan.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Also, what do you say to all those that have a Zondervan printed KJV? Should they all throw those out as well?
     
  5. James_Newman

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    That is an interesting reference. I was kind of thinking about that one myself. If we KNOW that the money is going to go to something that we would not support, would it be sinful to go ahead and justify the spending anyway? A Christian may do many things out of ignorance that God will overlook, because he is maturing and cannot be expected to become like Jesus overnight. But if it goes against your conscience, and you know about it, should we justify it by saying, well what else could I do?

    Maybe as Christians we have become too reliant on the world to provide for us, instead of relying on God and His provision?
     
  6. LarryN

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    And what of those NIVs printed by Zondervan prior to Zondervan's purchase by Murdoch's HarperCollins division? Zondervan presumably began printing the full NIV upon its completion in 1978. Zondervan wasn't purchased by HarperCollins until 1988. Would the NIVs printed during that 10 year window (1978-1988) be considered "untainted" (by those who are critical of the Murdoch/Zondervan connection)?
     
  7. James_Newman

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    This is not true. The International Bible Society (IBS) owns the text of the NIV and Zondervan only has the printing rights for the NIV - Kind of like the KJV being owned by the crown and certain printers (Cambridge, Oxford, ect.) having the rights to print it. This is just guilt by association. Zondervan printed the NIV long before Harper-Collins publishing (owned by Rupert Murdoch) bought Zondervan.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Also, what do you say to all those that have a Zondervan printed KJV? Should they all throw those out as well?
    </font>[/QUOTE]I really wasn't intending to drag the KJV/NIV debate over into this thread, but as I said above, if you didn't know better, I'm sure it will not be held against you, but to say that because Christians have KJV's printed by Zondervan does not validate the purchase of an NIV. If the NIV supports the RCC, well then so does a KJV with Zondervan printed on the side. You cannot unspend money (unless you return it in original condition within 30 days perhaps) but you can not continue making the same mistake (if it is indeed a mistake). I'm just wanting to discuss the biblical aspects of stewardship, and try to determine exactly how God wants me to be managing His money.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This concept of where God's money goes is interesting. I am grateful to James for opening the thread here instead of running in the BTV forum.

    The point is well taken, but so are the replies. Do you stop buying any Bible published by Zondervan Press? Can you buy a KJV published by Zondervan? Do you stop buying any Christian book published my Zondervan? Much of my library consists of books published by that company.

    How many of our Bibles are printed by striclty Christian companies that print nothing offensive, or are not connected with corporations which promote wickedness? I honestly don't know.

    When we get into international corporations you never really know where your money is going.

    Would it be best to say "Ignorance is bliss" and not look to closely into what compnaies profit from our purchases?
     
  9. Johnv

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    That's subjective. For example, if I have dinner at a chinese restaurant, am I supporting a false religion, since the owner is a cantonese buddhist? If I order Mexican food from the local Mom & Pop taco stand, am I supporting catholicism, because the establishment owners are Catholic? Must I avoid my local Jewish deli? If one is a KJVO, must you avid buying a Webster's dictionery, since Webster published his own Bible translation? Must I refuse to visit Sea World, because they're owned by an alcohol company, or refuse to buy any Nabisco or Kraft products because they're owned by tobacco companies?

    And how far must one take it? Should I avoid getting my oil changed at my local garage, just because they owner is an Anglican? What if he's a Presbyterian (they baptize infants)?

    Scripture say nothing about these things, but simply instructs us to be faithful stewards of what we are given (which is not just money). Lacking scriptural support, I think each person needs to be convinced in his own mind (and ONLY HIS OWN mind) on a case by case basis.
     
  10. AVL1984

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    I believe the Lord cares what we do with our money. I also know the Lord will hold us accountable for where it goes. But, with everything so intertwined in todays society, you can hardly by anything that does not support some kind of anti-biblical stance. I therefore shop at the places that will give us the most for our dollar. If we go to a restaurant (a nice one) I will go to O'Charleys or Appleby's or Olive Garden. If we eat at a fast food place, I will support Wendy's, Chick Fillet, Hardees and others. In soft drinks I often support coke, Pepsi,etc. I shop at Wal-Mart (they sell beer here), K-Mart and Target as well as other places. God expects us to do the best we can with what he gives us. I also buy Bibles, Christian gifts from many different venues. So, what is a Christian to do???? The best they can...and that is all.
     
  11. LarryN

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    Instead of focusing on any purchases of Zondervan items as "lining the pockets of Rupert Murdoch", how much of a counter-factor is it that Zondervan employs 425 people (I would presume largely believers) whose wages support themselves & their families?

    Can we take any solace or comfort in the fact that money spent on Zondervan products helps put food on the tables & roofs overhead in many Christian homes?
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    If I boycotted every shop who's owners used their money to support the Catholic Church in the country I would starve.

    My landlord is Catholic, my egg man is Catholic. My sons work at a supermarket chain owned by a Catholic. Their work provides a profit for him and he gives the the Catholic Church. My doctor is a Catholic and he sure gets his fair share from me.

    How far do you carry this?
     
  13. williemakeit

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    That is an interesting reference. I was kind of thinking about that one myself. If we KNOW that the money is going to go to something that we would not support, would it be sinful to go ahead and justify the spending anyway? A Christian may do many things out of ignorance that God will overlook, because he is maturing and cannot be expected to become like Jesus overnight. But if it goes against your conscience, and you know about it, should we justify it by saying, well what else could I do?

    Maybe as Christians we have become too reliant on the world to provide for us, instead of relying on God and His provision?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Not the Amish, and unless we want to seperate ourselves to that extent, then it is going to be very difficult to adhere to such a standard. It is not that we are relying so much on the world, but more on the society. The mid-1800s saw the beginning of the demise of family farms as the Industrial Revolution begin to attract them to the cities. As a result, we have become more interdependent in the resulting society. Considering the state of this country, I doubt if we can purchase anything that will not be an economic benefit to something that we do not agree with, or that we would personally contribute to.

    How can we apply Paul's teaching in today's society? I believe it would be of a tremendous benefit if we give our tithes and offerings. When possible, deal with Christian companies and contractors. I must admit that I have dealt with Christian contractors and companies where the quality was lacking, and the price was too high. Fortunately, I have gotten to know a couple of outstanding ones. Of course, the ultimate solution would be to create an Amish Baptist denomination. Anyone interested in starting one up? I may be one of the first to sign up. Of course, we would have to nail down which Bible version from the get-go. [​IMG]
     
  14. James_Newman

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    Is this perhaps the root of the problem? Are we so connected to the world that we have no alternatives?

    14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

    Are we unwilling to 'come out from among them'? I know that we are supposed to be pilgrims in this world. We are supposed to let our light shine before men. But are we perhaps pitching our tents a little too close to Sodom?
     
  15. TC

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    I did not drag the version debate into here. I just pointed out that you did not post the whole truth. He wants you to spend your money the way He told you to in the Bible:

    1. Use a just scale.
    2. Work to eat. Give of your extra to those that lack.
    3. Pay what you owe.
    4. Pay employees a fair wage, on time, ect.
    ect. ect. ect.

    Which companies/people to buy from or sell to is for you to decide with the leading of the Holy Spirit.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    And we do this buy purchasing a KJV published by Zondervan publishers??
     
  17. James_Newman

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    How far do you want to go to please God? I'm not sure yet what He wants me to do, but I know I want to do it. I think that we wrongly believe that the only way to live today is to live the way the rest of the world lives. The Amish may be an extreme example, but they do prove that it is possible to live a separated life. How separate should we be?
     
  18. James_Newman

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    And we do this buy purchasing a KJV published by Zondervan publishers?? </font>[/QUOTE]Can we keep on topic please? :mad: [​IMG]
     
  19. LarryN

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    This raises a good question: What if the only local Christian supplier of a particular product or service charged twice what other, non-Christian suppliers of that product or service charged.

    Should we feel any obligation to patronize the Christian company; or would it be considered poor stewardship to do so?
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This is straight on topic James - it has nothing to do with versions at all. You mentioned above boycotting Zondervan because of Murdoch.

    Do you think it is misusing God's money to buy a KJV Bible published by Zondervan?
     

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