Does God Justify Us Apart From ANY Works?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DaChaser1, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
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    Even though we say saved by faith alone, will it really be alone?
     
  2. JonC

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    Yes, but it depends on the faith.
    Biblical faith includes belief and repentance, for example (repent and believe). James classified faith that does not produce fruit as a dead, worthless faith. He also indicated that Demons have a faith in Christ – they have absolutely no doubt that Jesus is the Son of God, they don’t doubt His deity, they don’t even doubt their ultimate state at the appointed time – but they are not saved by that faith.
    So, yes, we are saved by faith alone – but faith has to be defined.
     
  3. kyredneck

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    Where, exactly, does it say that?
     
  4. annsni

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    The demons don't have faith - they have belief.

    But if God justified us with any works, then we could boast, could we not? But the Word clearly tells us that we are justified apart from any works.

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
     
  5. 12strings

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    We are saved by works...It's just not our own works!
     
    #5 12strings, Feb 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2012
  6. gb93433

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    A genuine saving faith in Jesus Christ is accompanied by works. Works by themselves are just works and nothing more. There is an interconnectedness between works and a genuine saving faith in Jesus. Faith without works is dead. As one becomes mature in Christ there is a noticeable difference in their focus.
     
  7. annsni

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    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. kyredneck

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    No, it most definitely is NOT clear. The sola fide bunch has acquired tunnel vision and 'gone to seed' on 'faith alone', and is heeding Luther and not the scriptures.

    James is crystal clear that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

    Paul clearly states that it is 'the doers of the law that are justified'.

    And here's the REAL cincher, Christ was asked the direct question at least twice, "What must I do to inherit eternal life", and both times He clearly refers them back to the law, "This do and thou shalt live", without even a mention of faith.

    There's a real simple solution to this conundrum, but it requires that one forget the unscriptual tenet of 'faith alone' and along with that, 'gospel means' regeneration.
     
    #8 kyredneck, Feb 15, 2012
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  9. annsni

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    I love what the verse in Ephesians that follows the verse I posted above. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Even our works are prepared for us by Him!
     
  10. jbh28

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    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


    That pretty much sums it up. We are not saved by our works. James says that true faith produces works. So if we really have faith, we will have works. But those works have nothing to do with being justified. Our works are insufficient.
     
  11. annsni

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    Right. Works are a result OF salvation - not a reason FOR salvation.
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Where, exactly, does James say that?

    You're reading something into it that simply is not there.

    It is the nature that is derived from the birth from above that produces BOTH works AND faith.
     
  13. gb93433

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    James 2:21-24 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness," and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
     
  14. jbh28

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    Yes, true faith will have works. That's why Paul said before "But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

    "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

    If someone says that believe, but don't act like it, they don't really believe.
     
  15. jbh28

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    It's there. Read the passage. I'm not going to go though your works salvation thing with you again.
     
  16. kyredneck

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    I don't recall ever having any sort of extended dialog with you on any topic; I do recall you turning away from discussing scriptural proofs (after I began to show them to you) of regeneration before belief.
     
    #16 kyredneck, Feb 15, 2012
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  17. kyredneck

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    ....help from you will come from the heart, because you genuinely care, NOT because it's your duty to fulfill a law.

    The whole essence of the religion of Jesus Christ is summed up in that one word, agape, i.e., 'thinking of others'. Agape is the fulfillment of the law. Period.

    It wasn't the priest or the Levite who helped the man who had fallen to the robbers, but it was a Samaritan, whom the Jews considered to be dogs, who showed compassion on him.

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2
     
    #17 kyredneck, Feb 15, 2012
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  18. jbh28

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    only because it was a change of subject. We were discussion this very subject of works and you changed it to regeneration before faith. I said that should be discussed in another thread.
     
  19. jbh28

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    exactly. That's why truth faith works.

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast

    are you saying that "they show" is an evidence of salvation in the works. A person of faith will have works.
     
  20. kyredneck

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    It's NOT faith! These have never HEARD the law! They do it by nature because the law has been written on their hearts! You err in saying faith produces works. The circumcised heart is the source of both faith and works.
     

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