Does God Want Children To Be Abused?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DrJamesAch, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
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  2. Greektim

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    Congratulations. (think of the last thread I started ;))

    Whatever you are looking for, we would all admit that in some sense, God does not get what he wants. I would argue that he gets what he ordains. And what he ordains is best qualified by his supremacy.

    I wonder... will this turn into a calvie thread???? I may have to revoke my previous congrats.
     
  3. DrJamesAch

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    So does God ordain arbitrarily or does He ordain what He wants?
     
  4. Greektim

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    As I said, his ordination is governed by his supremacy ("purpose of his will"). God is for his glory. He is motivated by it. His ordination conforms to that desire above all else. Is God glorified in ordaining that evil happen. Yes.

    Congratulations rescinded.
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    Don't you understand the law of "whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap" and that there is JUST consequences of sin???? Why not ask if God will actually punish women and children (of age) in hell? Or do you deny the existence of women and children in hell??????

    Psa. 76:10 is my scripture deal with it.
     
  6. Sapper Woody

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  7. JohnDeereFan

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    It's a hard truth, but it is true. God does not ordain evil, but He does allow it for His glory.

    Hard as it may be for us to grasp, God is even glorified when people are sentenced to Hell.

    Hard truth, but true.
     
  8. Scarlett O.

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    It was God's will that He create a universe and all that's in it. It was His will to create man and woman in His image and give them a boundary to help them understand "in His image" - a boundary that He gave no other creature nor creation - to allow them to emulate His Holiness. Being in His image, man and woman are the only part of creation that can be holy as God is holy.

    Man and woman were already "like God" because they reflected His nature. The lie from the devil that "if you eat from the forbidden tree you will be 'like God'" was ridiculous.

    Mankind became unholy. It was God's will to provide a way of escape and a way of salvation and a means of restoration TO holiness and righteousness.

    .....and until the day comes that He takes us all home, it is God's will that the consequences and reaping of sin of THIS temporary unholy place run it's course until all have heard of Jesus.

    No, it is not God's will for men, women, nor children to suffer abuse from the hands of others.

    It is His will for the gospel of Jesus Christ to permeate this unholy world until He deems it all to cease.
     
  9. DrJamesAch

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    The link is there to show that it's not complicated. You'll see how that plays out as others dodge a simple question and answer it every which way but straight forward.
     
  10. DrJamesAch

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    So does God get more glory from determining people to hell or determining them to love and worship Him?
     
  11. DrJamesAch

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    That doesn't answer the question. I did not confirm or deny anything, I did not state a premise, axiom or conclusion (YET). We are not talking about the justice of God. It is my thread and I can start any subject I wish. If you think I should have asked a different question, then by all means, start your own thread. This thread doesn't presume to answer the question about judgment or sowing and reaping, that's an entirely different matter.

    The question is simple, reread it, and remember:

    IT'S NOT COMPLICATED
     
  12. DrJamesAch

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    That's not the question. The question isn't about what brings glory to God, but the first question is the abuse of women and children what God WANTS and DESIRES.

    The response to your first response that God gets what He ordains, was does God want what He ordains. And which comes first, the wanting or the ordaining?
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    Look at your own question. It infers sin -or don't you believe "rape" is sin????

    Your question implies that God may be either pleased or displeased with such consequences of sin. The answer is God's good pleasure has NOTHING to do with it but God's JUSTICE does. Is "rape" and "abuse" consequences of sin? Yes! Are the consequences of sin consistent with God's Justice? Yes! Is God's Justice holy and righteous altogether? yes!
     
  14. DrJamesAch

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    God's justice is only involved if you MAKE that into a premise and alter the original question. You don't get to do that. But I'll deflate your attempt to avoid the question anyway.

    Who was God punishing in demonstration of justice BEFORE HE CREATED THE WORLD?

    Now back to the original question. The question is about what God WANTS and DESIRES. If that's too complicated for you, eat a Snickers and try later.
     
    #14 DrJamesAch, Jul 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2013
  15. Salty

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    Any particular you left out "men"?
     
  16. DrJamesAch

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    Sure, throw them in their too. But I did say children so at least it does include male children.
     
  17. Inspector Javert

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    Some people do what Barack Obama is a master at.....answer ONLY the question you wanted to be asked rather than the one that WAS asked.

    The same tactic will be used if you ask whether God "loves" everyone or not....they will answer a question about God's "justice"....but, not God's love.

    Similarly, many will answer questions about God's "justice" since that's the question some want you to have asked, but they won't answer a question about what God "WANTS".
     
  18. Inspector Javert

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    Dr. J. is not so stupid as to think that your"congratulations" were genuinely offered in the first place.
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    Look, nobody is stupid enough to miss your intent as you plainly state it in these words "Let's see how many people will be honest and consistent with their theology." So it is designed to be a "gotcha" question.

    Second, your question says nothing about BEFORE CREATION.

    Third, there was no rape, molestation, abuse BEFORE CREATION, all of these are POST-fall events due to sin.

    Did God allow, permit, sin - yes because he could have prevented it several different ways. He could have created people in a sustained sinless condition. He could have never given a test. He could have destroyed Adam and Eve Instantly.

    No, we do not attribute sin to God BEFORE CREATION in regard to His good pleasure but we do attribute sin to God according to both His foreknowledge and His permission and thus by His design and consistent with His eternal purpose or else He could have prevented it a number of differnent ways.

    The creation of moral choice in an unfallen state necessitated the option of sin. HOWEVER DON'T CONFUSE MORAL CHOICE IN AN UNFALLEN CONDITION WITH CHOICE IN A FALLEN CONDITION AS THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

    Bottom line, God permits rape, murder, molestation, etc. every single day and it is consistent with His eternal purpose in regard to the fall and sin and is consistent with his Justice OR ELSE HE WOULD PREVENT IT as that is precisely what Psa. 76:10 states explicitly.
     
    #19 The Biblicist, Jul 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2013
  20. The Archangel

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    Logical Fallacy: Begging the Question. Your question assumes that God does want women and children to be abused, etc.

    Logical Fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Your question assumes that abuse to women and children occurs precisely because God desires it to be so.

    And the list could go on.

    You ask the question in such a way that no answer will suffice. Therefore, you create a strawman (yet another logical fallacy) rather than dealing with a similar question in a more proper way. Then, when we point this out, you say that we won't answer the question straight.

    Your hatred of the Calvinists is truly ridiculous. In the past week or so you've posted or implied in your writings that Calvinists: 1.) are all anti-Semites; 2.) are all racists responsible for Apartheid; 3.) Satan worshipers; 4.) Buddhists at heart; and 5.) approving of violence against children and women. And, what is more, after we call you on such things, you play the Pariah and Martyr implying that it's "our" fault you do what you do.

    Sad.

    The Archangel

    And, no, this post is not an example of the ad hominem fallacy.
     

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