Featured Does "The Church" exist?

Your closer but no cigar. Isaiah 61:11 defines only the first aspect of the Great Commission -preaching the gospel and its effects. The second and third aspects of the Great Commission go beyond mere evangelization of the lost.

You are correct that the "another gospel" refers to the gospel of works as there is no gospel that is works plus grace because they cannot be mixed (Rom. 11:6). So there is the gospel of works that masquerades as grace or the gospel of grace.

 

The important aspect of Hebrews 6:1 is that Paul is speaking of the first principles of the doctrine "OF CHRIST" not "OF MOSES." Most commentators go on to interpret these as the doctrine "OF MOSES" rather than "OF CHRIST."

This singular "doctrine" is categorized under three couplets

1. The foundation of Salvation - repentance of dead works and faith toward God (see heb. 2:3-4; 4:2)
2. The foundation of Service - The doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands
3. The foundation of Second Coming - The resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement.

The first and third should need no explanation. However, the second one does need some explanation.

Jesus taught three types of baptism all related to service.

1. Water baptism introduces you into the assembly - baptism prior to instruction

2. Baptism of suffering for identifying with Christ, Christ's doctrine and Christ's assembly

3. Baptism in the Spirit which provides the proper Historic accreditation of Christ's Assembly as "the house of God."

In regard to "laying on of hands" it refers to those set apart by the assembly (1 Tim. 3:1-13) in order to perpetuate it as the "house of God" and the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) through their preaching and teaching of the truth or teachers of "the faith" that many will depart from (1 Tim. 4:1).

Oh boy, now I have opened a can of worms. Now watch the vultures come a running.

 

Think that the Body/Bride/Church of Christ as God defined it means the Universal church of all saints in heaven and on earth, all the redeemed thru the ages who have trusted in jesus to be saved!

 

Isaiah is speaking merely of the gospel and what it does for the lost. Broken hearted over sin refers to repentance. Poor - refers to poor in spirit. Captives liberated is freed from the condemnation and BONDAGE of sin. This is where the Great Commission begins.

 

You are confusing the family of God with the church of God. The church had no existence prior to the ministry of Christ but the family of God existed from the garden of Eden.

The church had no "foundation" (Eph. 2:20) before the apostles as the apostles were "set FIRST" in the church (1 Cor. 12:28) rather than the Old Testament saints or prophets.

Second, you are confusing the gospel with the church. The gospel of salvation has been preached since the foundation of the world (Gen. 3;15; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:29) but the church is a "mystery" to the Old Testament revealed only in the New Testament.

Third, you are confusing being "created in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10) with metaphorically being "in Christ" or in the body of Christ through water baptism. We are in Christ by election (Eph. 1:4). We are "in Christ" by regeneration (Eph. 2:10). We are "in Christ" representatively by headship (1 Cor. 15:21). We are "in Christ" as metaphorically (1 Cor. 12:27) members. Context defines the difference.

Fourth, you are confusing salvation with service. The gospel has to do with salvation and has always been the same gospel (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) from Genesis to the present but the church has to do with service as metaphorical members in a metaphorical body.

Fifth, you are confusing the present state of New Testament congregations with the future eternal state. Now they are congregations which are the same in faith and practice but distinct from each other. In heaven they will be united as one congregation in the New Jerusalem.

 

Think we baptists have tried to distance ourselves so far from being seen as holding to the Universal Church'catholic", that we simple ignore or reinterprete clear biblical passages that state that the Church is all members of Body of christ, those who have been redeemed by God, not to referring JUST to a local assembly of believers!

 

1. There is not one word about any church being instituted on Pentecost - not one word. What the Bible does say was that the 3,000 were "added" to the church. What they were "added" to were the list of names given before Pentecost in Acts 1:15. You cannot "add" to something that does not exist already.

2. The same gospel, (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:32) same regeneration (Jn. 3:9) same justification (Rom. 4:6-9; Gal. 3:6-8) all existed prior to Pentecost. Regeneration is SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ and thus all the elect were "chosen IN him" before the foundation of the world including all the saints from Genesis to Matthew (Rom. 3:24-26) and therefore brought into SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ through regenreation as regeneration is defined as being "created IN Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:1, 5,10).

3. The term "ekklesia" has NEVER been used historically as far as usage to mean "called out of the world" - NEVER! It originates with the city kingdoms of Greece and refers to those qualified citizens called out to assemble as a visible local legislative congregation in its secular use.

4. Spirit baptism has no reference to individual salvation or regeneration or any kind of personal individual application. If that were the case then Peter would have said "since" the beginning not "at" the beginning for the nearest reference point of what he explains to be the baptism in the Spirit that occurred at the hosue of Cornelious (Acts 11:15-16). The baptism in the Spirit was the Old Testament public dedication of the "house of God" divinely accrediting it by God's shikinah glory. It occurred once with each new house "at the beginning." The extraordinary occassion at the house of Corneilus PUBLICALLY ACCREDITED the Gentiles to be approved by God for water baptism in the membership of the congregation at Jerusalem which cause a great stir among its all Jewish membership.

5. The same gospel was proclaimed consistently in the Old Testament and this is explicitly repeatedly stated over and over again by the apostles (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23; 1 Cor. 15:4-5; Gal. 1:8-9 with Gal. 3:6-8; etc.).

 

The Gospel as regarding jesus death and resurrection was NOT preached until pentacost!

there was a 'shadow" of it given to the OT believers, and they placed faith in those promises they were given, but was not the entire Gospel Paul taught, as messiah not arrived and did His work yet!

the Church is seperate from isreal, under a new covenant relationship now...

Jews/gentiles saved by God under Old Covenant NOT part of the new one!

Whether it started with jesus, or at Pentacost, Church refers to all those redeemed by jesus under new Covenant, and are those alive and dead in Christ!

local meeting of the saints are in local churches....

All the saved from all local assemblies together comprise the true 'church of Christ" here on earth!

 

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Gal. 3:6 ¶ Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The gospel, the SAME gospel was preached prior to the cross in according to progressive revelation. It was first preached in Genesis 3:15 by the pre-incarnate Christ in the Garden to Adam and Eve in the summarized form of the promised seed. It was fulfilled in its fullest form in the gospels but is summarized by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:4-5 "according to the scriptuers" - meaning the Old Testament Scriptures. Paul clearly states that Isaiah preached the gospel as revealed in its progressive form in Isaiah 53 as Romans 10:15 claims that Isaiah 53 is the gospel preached by Isaiah.

 

Perhaps you need to inform both Christ and Paul to that tidbit of news:

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Do you consider John 3:16 and John 3:36 the gospel?? Both were preached before Pentecost.

 

Yes, I was talking about different baptisms. Water baptism is the ONLY baptism that a BELIEVER can administer to another person and so it must be the baptism in the Great Commission - Mt. 28:19. This was and is the baptism of John as no other baptism had been commissioned or administered (Lk. 7:29-30; Jn. 4:1-2) prior to Matthew 28:19-20 and this commision is about making disciples according to and observing what he had already "commanded."

The baptism in relationship to the cup was not water baptism or what one person administers to another but was a METAPHORICAL baptism of suffering.

 

My goodness, of course the church exists!

Multitudes are part of the church here on earth, while many more multitudes are part of the church in heaven.

 

Have you read the previous posts? Apparently not! You are confusing the family of God both on earth and heaven with the church of God. They are not synonyms in God's Word.

The family of God can be found from Genesis to Revelation but there is no church of God from Genesis to Matthew. Why? Because God added to his church FIRST the apostles (1 Cor. 12:28). Why? Because the FOUNDATION of the church consists of New Testament apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20). Why? Because Christ built His church during his public ministry (Mt. 16:18; 18:17; Acts 1:21-22) not before. Why? Because on Pentecost the 3,000 souls were "ADDED UNTO them" who had been habitually assembling together with Christ from the baptism of John (Acts 1:21-22; 2:41,46). Why? Because the "keys of THE KINGDOM" were given to the church (Mt. 18:17-18) and thus the church cannot be the kingdom or family of God. Why? Because the baptism in the Spirit is the common ordinary Old Testament shikinah glory that publically accredited every NEW house of God after the appointed builder had already FINISHED it (Ex. 40:33-34; 2 Chron. 7:1-3; Acts 2:1-2) and was known among the Jews as "The dedication of the House of God" and was an INSTITUTIONAL not an INDIVIDUAL act of God (1 Tim. 3:15).

 

The Church of Christ is the bride/body of christ!
from time of ministry of jesus and Apostles until last person save dunder this current Age of Grace...


So the "family" of God of believers saved during the Age of grace forward would be his church!

 

Biblicist...

You are simply wrong.

The "Church" is all of the redeemed, for all time. Some are in heaven now, while others...such as you and I...are still here on earth.

But we are all members if the Church..meaning the universal church.

And of course, all members of the universal church should also, if possible, gather together regularly with other christians with a local church.