Does the Constitution Matter?

No, I will not sign such a crackpot petition. :laugh:

And Republicans called Democrats sore losers over the 2000 election. This stupid "is Obama a U.S. citizen" nonsense is way worse than any whining the Democrats did. This is way, way, way over the top.

I pity the anti-Obama forces who are making themselves look so very foolish by continuing this tripe. And it is especially troubling to see Christians being led around by the nose by those who are spreading this crackpot idea.

 

Ken,
I agreed with you until about a week and a half ago. Then something came up: A document was produced that showed that Barry Sotero was an Indonesian citizen from age 6 until about age 10.

Maybe his father at the time simply lied in order to get him into the Indonesian schools; but now I have to wonder if his citizenship was actually changed by his parents at the time; if it was ever changed back; and most importantly, does he meet the qualifications for President.

It would help if he, or his staff, would just come clean about the whole situation.

I hope you see that this is actually a question, at least on my part, and not whining about who won and who lost.

 

The problem, Don, is that if President-elect Obama gives in to crackpots(not referring to you) on this issue, then where does it stop? You know as well as I do that there would be no end to the foolishness that crackpots can dredge up as questions. And even if they could be satisfied on this question the crackpots would say "well, if you answered this question, then what about this one, and what about that one", etc., etc., etc.

Therefore, it is better to let these crackpots keep up their foolishness than to give in to them as only a handful out of 300 million people in this country would ever give any creedence to this crackpot idea.

These crackpots are no better than the 9/11 truther crowd.

 

I personally don't consider Alan Keyes a crackpot; however, you and I may not agree on that subject.

 

In order to lose his American citizenship he had to go to the American consul in Indonesia and formally renounce his citizenship. That's what the law says. If that happened I would think it would have been documented. Actually, I wonder if a minor can do that. I'd need to look into that question.

 

Of course the Constitution does matter.

What does not matter is ludicrous lawsuits.

 

Jesus and his disciples were ridiculed by the unbelievers. I love Jesus and I love truth.... and the Bible has taught me that while I may have human relationships dependant on trust.... the trust in man is not the same, pure, undefiled trust as that which I have in my heavenly Father.

So, Ken, you may ridicule me and other brethern who are law abiding and who desire to know the truth regarding this proof of being a natural born citizen.

"By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established" (2Corinthians 13:1).
"If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true" (John 5:31). Jesus then presents the witnesses.....4 to be exact;
John the Baptist, Jesus' works, His Father, and the Scriptures (John 5:33-39). These witnesses qualify with agreement and crediblity (Exodus 20:16).
Note worthy, Paul received revelation directly from Jesus (Galatians 1:12) but checked his understanding with Peter (Galatians 1:18) and again "And I went up… and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain" (Galatians 2:2). So while one must be careful when relying on every authority, still it is wise to check in and carefully consider and submit to the Biblically sound authority as Paul did with "those who were of reputation."
It is Biblical to expect that a person who represents himself to be 'someone' is also willing to submit to the testimony of proof or witnesses that he is as he says.

You say you are not a 'one issue' voter... and therefore disregarded the abortion issue in your choice.. But in other threads, some posted today, you essentially say that voting the economy is a reason for having voted for this candidate.... so, it seems, you are a one issue voter in that the economy trumped the abortion issue for you. You justify your position but ridicule others who make different choices for different reasons. Why? Who is it that attacks you? Who is it that condemns you? If no one then why are you kicking out?

Truth is absolute. It is unchanging. It is not relative. The Bible is the Word of God and it is true. The Bible teaches us we should uphold the laws of the land. All of our laws are summarized into the Constitution of the United States. If it sets forth a qualification for office..... and it does in several places, then either a person meets the qualifications or he does not. As the Biblical law is our teacher and reveals to us our sin..... so it is that the Constitution is the law and a person should be willing to make their proof when a question of his qualification and meeting the law comes to light.

Neither you nor I have the responsibility to prove or disprove Obama's citizenship qualifications: But we do have not merely the right but the necessity to see that one who will lead us and take an oath to preserve the law of the land.... is, first and foremost, a supporter of that law by his own submission to it. Neither you nor I can swear before God that we have any certain knowledge regarding this question of his citizenship. Alll we have is what he says and what those who have an invested interest in his success have said. We have not seen the testimony of impartial counsel. If anything, there have been inferences made by people who claim presence or knowledge of his birth in Kenya.

We can see on the internet the documents that show he was enrolled in an Indonesian school under a different name than what he calls himself now. But there is discussion that on some legal forms, he has only filled out the name BHO, and never acknowledged an aka which was also requested.... i.e. Barry Sotero.

While we have no personal power as individuals to examine these witnesses for ourselves, we should feel encouraged that the law of our land is effective in having the power to reveal the truth..... if a question exist, which in this case does exist. It is in the power of the court and barring their willingness to do their duty, it is within the power of the Legislature to demand the evidence and attest to its satisfaction or not. Rather than delay and be offended...... everyone who is an American who loves our country should welcome the satisfaction of this issue..... and none more than the President elect in producing the proof. If he is above the law of the land in this matter, then he is beyond the law which legitimizes his presidency and should not be allowed to fill that office.

BTW... your vocabulary is rather limited and a 'crackedpot' is a pot of porcelain which is unsound...... so thats what you call the brethern who differ from you in their opinion! And if you know the truth about 9-11.....please tell us. Another thread indicated a summary judgenment .....almost unanimous in agreement that 'the truth may never be known or revealed' as to what was known, when and by whom. Opinons are welcomed but perjorative names and off topic introductiosn to add additional insult is not becoming and adds nothing to the discussion!

 

1Thessalonians 5:21 says: "Test all things; hold fast what is good."

To qualify means to prove.

 

If you're concerned about the constitution, as I am as well, what did you do when Bush too away our right to Habeas Corpus which was restored in June 2008 by the Supreme Court which declared his action unconstitutional? What about when he ramrodded through the Patriot Act which allows federal authorities to enter your home to search it (forcefully if they so desire) without a search warrant or probable cause? What about when Bush made it legal to eavesdrop on your telephone calls without a warrant? Did you write your Congressman or sign a petition? If not why not?

 

Please stay on topic. Every thread is not about President Bush.

 

Upholding the constution is never crackpot. Anyone who believes it is isn't a true american.

 

Back on topic, my opinion is that anyone who supports either the Democratic or Republican Party has very little regard for the Constitution. Think about the 13 or so cabinet posts, and compare them with the powers granted in the Constitution. See how many should even exist. Not many.

 

I thought the thread was about whether the Constitution matters. Is that isn't the case then it is mistitled. Actually, just look at the threads. Most are about degrading Obama. I personally am tired of that.

 

Then start an entirely new thread degrading Bush and get your revenge out of your system.

 

Tell me your rules. If the topic isn't defined by its title what is it defined by?

 

What does any of this have to do with his birth certificate?

The allegation is questioning his birth certificate and not if his citizenship ever changed.

 

I thought Obama did produce a certified copy of his birth certificate. It's all over the web. Isn't the contention that the certificate is fake or forged? This means he could have pictures of his actual birth in front of a Welcome to HI sign and some will say it was photo shopped. How far does one have to go to satisfy one who refuses to be satisfied?