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Featured Does the Greek Text Matter?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Jul 11, 2015.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Exactamundo!
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Okay, let's look at this again. There are some errors here.

    These omit 7:53-8:11 at the traditional location, and insert following Luke 21:38 (Family 13)--13. 69. 346. 543. 788. 826. 828. 983

    These omit 8:1-11 there but insert 7:53-8:11 following Luke 21:38--(Family 13). 124.

    PA has Family 13 text in whole or part, but located in loc. Jn 7:53. (Except for 1689, these MSS are not members of Family 13)--166, 174, 211, 230, 395,
    591, 926, 1205, 1367, 1689, 2660, 2725.

    And finally, 1709 is not Family 13 in the PA text at all.

    These facts are based on a collation database of Family 13.
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    "Campaign?" Just because I gave my opinion on the BB? :laugh:
    So what exactly is your point here in connection with my posts? I'm a Baptist Bible translator, not a medieval monk.
    Tell you what. Your errors on this thread illustrate my point well.
    "Rarified air of acadamia"? You completely missed my thread praising William Pierpont, who was not an academic but put in the hard work of 100s of hours to learn Greek and textual criticism, and ended up being co-editor with Dr. Maurice Robinson of the Byzantine Textform Greek NT.

    When you quit your addiction to Wikipedia level textual criticism and put in a few dozen hours of actual study on it, I'll respect your opinion on these issues. Right now I don't.
    Tell you what. Learn Greek. Buy yourself a Byz. textform NT. Look at these passages and figure out which are actually Byzantine and which are only TR. Then you'll know the answers.
     
    #163 John of Japan, Jul 26, 2015
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  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Just in case anyone is fooled by Rippon's ramblings, let me set the record straight. I do not object to the average man in the pew learning textual criticism. What I do object to is a little league player thinking he is a pro. I object to someone with Internet access but no training diagnosing my illness. I object to an armchair theologian on the BB thinking he is Augustus Strong. I object to people who don't know any ancient or foreign languages thinking they are experts in Bible translation. And I object to a lazy person reading a few Wikipedia articles and thinking he knows textual criticism.

    If the shoe fits, you don't need a shoehorn--just wear it. :type:

    (Mark my words, this post will bring on another personal attack. It's okay. I have a thick skin--but I will rebuke.)
     
    #164 John of Japan, Jul 26, 2015
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  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Why not deal with what I have said above instead of being petty-minded JJ?
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Yet you object to even having brackets around disputed texts in Bible translations with notes. It disturbs your sensibilities. You have a disconnect.
     
  7. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    No errors. I stated possibilities of relocation. Usually the apparatus shows which of the family has it in the spot. It did not this time. I just listed the possibilities of text that have it there.

    According NA28; 1689 is f13. (For gospels)
    It also has 1709 as f13 for the gospels. No exclusion for the PA.....maybe I have misunderstood youNA

    * I think did misunderstand
    The NA28 has the following for f13 for gospels: 13, 69, 124, 230, 346, 543, 788, 826, 828, 983, 1689, 1709

    It does not list them as cited(individually). Just as in the family for gospels.

    Just for further comparison f1: 1, 118, 131, 209, 1582. For gospels.


    *** NA26 data has a different list for f13. I'm missing something here. I will get back to you on this.
     
    #167 McCree79, Jul 26, 2015
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  8. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    JofJ,

    Can you check the UBS3 and see what minusclues it cites for the gospels?
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What in the world makes you think that I have even hinted at such an absurdity?
    Hmm... you are a self-confessed novice with respect to textual criticism. I merely disagreed with some of your KJVO-like remarks about not placing brackets in Bible translations because it will supposedly plant doubt in the minds of readers.
    Huh? Why don't you say things that are factual for a change?
    So far you are batting zero. What's with you these days? Put on your missionary persona and admit you have stepped too far.
    I have marked your hypocrisy, because this last paragraph negates what you have said in the rest of your post. Consider this a rebuke. You are coming off like a conceited person.
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I see nothing there for me to answer more than I already have.

    The thread is about textual criticism, not brackets in English Bibles. In fact, the OP is specifically about "Does the Greek Text Matter?"
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    If you didn't get it there is no way I could explain it to you.
    Um, no, I never said I was a novice. I'm not. I'm published in textual criticism. What I said was that I'm an amateur who makes mistakes.
    Okay, so I predicted another personal attack in answer to my post, and you have called me a hypocrite and petty-minded. Yep, I was right. I'm a prophet! :saint:
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'll check it out when I get back to my office, but that might not be until Wednesday. We're down in Ohio visiting with my three sisters, because the youngest has cancer.

    God bless.
     
  13. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    No problem.

    Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Hmm...the above is from the OP. Yet JJ said in post 170 "The thread is about textual criticism, not brackets in English Bibles."

    JJ is of a divided mind. The whole thrust of the OP is not about brackets in English Bibles (although I had said Bible translations, not only English ones) but it certainly is a part of the OP. Can't have it both ways.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I had responded to your senseless comment with :"What in the world makes you think that I have even hinded at such an absurdity."

    Absurdities by very definition cannot be explained. If you can refrain from making them in the first place, then do so. You are derailing your own thread.
    To be specific, I said I had marked your hypocrisy,because your last paragraph had negated the rest of your post. When you specialize in bad-mouthing me and then turn around and say your post will bring on a personal attack --that is hypocrisy in action JJ.
     
    #175 Rippon, Jul 27, 2015
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  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The above is a simple, straightforward question. I'd like a direct answer instead of a smart-alect and evasive reply. I already know that the above references are not found in the Byzantine text.
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The term "critical text" in my OP refers to the Greek text, not English translations.
     
    #177 John of Japan, Jul 27, 2015
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  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    They are not found in the Byzantine text, my preferred Greek text. So how can they be put in brackets? If you really want to talk about brackets in English Bibles, start your own thread. I'm done with the subject.
     
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Once again, you apparently did not understand my illustrations. Most people would ask what I meant. You prefer to call it senseless. Doesn't bother me.
    I haven't bad-mouthed you personally. If you take my general statements personally, that's your problem, not mine.
     
  20. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76 Well-Known Member
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    Sorry to hear this about your sister. I am just outside of Cincinnati. I too have fought cancer....it ain't easy. Prayers on the way.
     
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