Does the Holy Ghost fall?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lifter, Dec 27, 2002.

  1. Lifter

    Lifter
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    I didn't know whether this should be in the music or theology forum. Our choir has just started working on "When the Holy Ghost Comes Down."
    "You can't have church until the Holy Ghost shows up" is the first line. (Yes, we are SBC. No, we are not charismatic.) The rest basically says that all that we do is useless unless the Spirit of the Lord comes down.
    Can someone give a scriptural basis for the Spirit coming down in a worship service?
    Another part of the song comes from "Brethern We Have Met To Worship."
    "All is vain unless the Spirit of the Holy One comes down." This is straight out of the old Baptist hymnal. I know that not a lot of poor theology got past the editors of that.
    Is there a difference in what these two songs are saying?

    You folks on the Baptist Board have really caused me to pay attention to what we are singing. [​IMG]
     
  2. Lifter

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    And why don't my graemlins work?
     
  3. mountainrun

    mountainrun
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    I'm not familiar with that particular hymn, although I do know that the Holy Ghost lives in me.
    So when church starts, He's already there.
    I wouldn't make to much of an issue of it though.
    We have someone in our church who is always nit picking on things like that and it's not appreciated.
    Observing this, I don't comment on things that don't really matter.
    Or if I do, I don't say much.
    If you think it's a heretical matter though, it should be brought up because people in the pews rightly assume that what is sung in church is what is believed by the church.

    Maybe you could post the complete hymn.
     
  4. blackbird

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    I believe that the songs you are singing are all "figures of speech"---now, I could be wrong but there is no mention of the Holy Spirit "falling down" in the word--true, in Acts 2--when the Day of Pentecost was fully COME--eternity invaded time--the Holy Spirit is here---He doesn't have to "come" again--He doesn't have to "fall down" again---now, there is a difference in Him "falling down" to us and us "falling down" to Him--that is, being obedient to Him---there won't be any "church" until we become obedient to Him--until we yield to Him!

    So, I don't ask Him to "Fall" on me--I ask that I obey Him! Hope I can shed light--

    Your Southern Baptist friend,
    Blackbird
     
  5. Ben W

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    No He cannot fall on anyone. There is the time when Jesus was baptised and the Holy Spirit fell on him like a dove (Mt 3:16)

    However as a Christian you are baptised in the Holy Spirit at your conversion. So as the third member of the God head he is walking with you leading and guiding you.

    Where some people get it wrong is they consider the Holy Spirit to be "the Good side of the Force luke" and they call Him "it" rather than He. They liken themselves to a vessel and think of Him as water filling them. You fill yourself praying, reading the word and being in relationship with God. The Holy Spirit leads you in the way of the Father. And the Holy Spirit works the miracle in your life that allows you to know the Father.
     
  6. Jim1999

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    I believe that man is comprised of both body and soul. Part of that makeup includes emotion. God uses the whole man to involve him in worship, service and everyday living.

    There is a sense where we can go through all the correct steps and come away empty. Is this an emotional step we are missing? Is it all emotion? I don't think so. I firmly believe there is a place for emotion, and we can "feel" the presence of God in our midst. Now, we don't incorporate feelings into our theology as an act of confirmation of God's presence, but the Lord can certainly use emotions to bring us into His holy presence.

    In England, we experienced what has been called the Keswick experience. During some of these meetings, a speaker rose to speak and stood silently for a few minutes and then sat back down. People in the midst began to confess sins, apologize to fellow worshippers and all broke out in song. Was this just an emotional experience, or was it a filling of the Holy Spirit? You can be the judge, but I must tell you that one does not walk away from such a meeting without a changed being. The same experience prevailed in some of the Welsh revivals and these people were solid Calvinists and not at all given to the Pentecostal experience of speaking in tongues and all those peripheries. It was solid preaching, praying and congregational confessions.

    Let us never fear to feed the whole man; to let go, and let God.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ December 28, 2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
  7. Caretaker

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    Acts 10:
    44
    While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
    45
    And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    46
    For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    47
    Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    48
    And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    Acts 11:
    15
    And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
    16
    Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
    17
    Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
    18
    When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

    The day of pentecost was the beginning of the Jewish Christian Church. The falling of the Holy Spirit upon the household of Cornelius was the pentecost of the Gentile Christian church, for Peter says that it was the same as that which was experienced by the 120 in the upper room. There was no church before the falling of the Holy Ghost upon the jewish believers. There were no Gentile church until the Holy Ghost fell on the household of Cornelius, there was no church until the Holy Ghost fell.

    May God so bless His precious children.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew

    Psalm 51:10
    Create in me a clean heart, O'God, and renew a right spirit within me.
     
  8. Lifter

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    Thanks for your answers.
    mountainrun,
    I was not trying to be nitpicky. This was a point of theology I wanted to discuss. Many points of theology would be considered nitpicky. There are many things apart from the essentials of our faith that people disagree on. I just wanted some other opinions. I am not going to refuse to sing the song. [​IMG]
    Joel

    [ December 28, 2002, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Lifter ]
     
  9. Paul of Eugene

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    Let's remember that when scripture speaks of the Spirit "falling" on people, it is an attempt to express in English ideas for which we are not prepared to understand the literal truth of what happened. I don't think anybody believes the Holy Spirit was influenced by the force of gravity and therefore dropped on people's heads, like rocks thrown from a high place! There was a transformation of some kind, a gift of some kind sudden in its appearance.
     
  10. Artimaeus

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    In Acts 10:44 He FELL on them...
    In Acts 10:45 He was POURED OUT on them...
    In Acts 10:47 They had RECEIVED the Holy Ghost...
    In Acts 11:16 They were BAPTIZED with the Holy Ghost...

    These are indeed, as one poster has stated, figures of speech describing the Holy Spirit indwelling Christians. It is a separate but related issue about Pentacost, the Gentile Church, Cornelius, and the like. I would not worry about an expression in a song unless it is a doctrinal issue in your church. Then I would teach the truth and explain that it is just an expression in a song (called poetic license). Many songs that are dearly loved have small aspects about them that are not totally accurate but I think most people realize that songs are not "gospel" and can be enjoyed without having to be 100% scriptural. Otherwise, each church would have to have their own hymnal and we can't afford that. :D
     
  11. Pete

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    First verse of the hymn Lifter mentioned in post above:

    Brethren, we have met to worship and adore the Lord our God;
    Will you pray with all your power, while we try to preach the Word?
    All is vain unless the Spirit of the Holy One comes down;
    Brethren, pray, and holy manna will be showered all around.


    The rest of that one is at http://www.truthinhistory.org/brethren.htm .I couldn't find anything about the song "When the Holy Ghost Comes Down."

    I am sure if some people of today were around in Moses day there would not be a bush left in the area, as they would all be going around with a box of matches and lighting them wanting a "Moses experience"....Actually, it is bushfire season now here in Australia, maybe it is people like that lighting them?

    But anyway....

    God the Holy Spirit came upon/fell upon the Church in Acts. Since then every Christian is to be continually filled by Him. As mentioned by others in a few posts, He does not have to "come down/fall down", He is already with us.

    I would think a while before doing that hymn.

    One I would not touch with a 40ft pole is Geron Davis' Send It On Down. Send it on Down, Lord, Let the Holy Ghost Come on Down. IT??!!??!! :eek: :(

    Pete
     

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