Does the sinner's prayer saves?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ventin, Dec 20, 2001.

  1. ventin

    ventin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    we saw many tracts ending with the sinner's prayer. Does reciting that prayer saves? Does scriptures teach sinner's prayer? If not,why issit there? :confused:
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,650
    Likes Received:
    312
    Closing this topic here in "News Affecting Baptists..." and moving it to "Baptist Theology and Bible Study."

    [ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     
  3. redwhitenblue

    redwhitenblue
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2001
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, Jesus is what or shall I say who saves. Saying a prayer on the back of a tract no matter what it's called, as long as it includes sincerity of the heart and confession of the mouth that Jesus is Lord as well as repentance...that person is very much saved.

    karen
     
  4. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dealt with the sinner's prayer for some time. Because the inherent evil of it is that the person is lead to think that they have done something to be saved. I have seen it happen too often.

    Instead of repeating everything here, I have an essay at my website.
    http://www.geocities.com/flyfree432/personalacceptance.html

    A better title for the "sinner's prayer" would be: "The prayer of thanks and acceptance for salvation"

    UNP
    Adam
     
  5. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Hyles, Rice, Gray, Hatch, and Hutson followers believe this. Just find one and go out with them on "soul-winning" night and you'll see the "pray this prayer after me" first-hand.
     
  6. ventin

    ventin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    i too have seen many ppl witnessing for Christ and they spent merely 5 or most 10 mins to explain the Gospel and quickly jump to the sinner's prayer. After saying the prayer, we congrate the new believer, welcome to the kingdom of God.

    Does the non-believer need to understand fully the Gospel message b4 recieving Christ then?
     
  7. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    The Ethiopian eunuch comes to mind.

    He was reading from Isaiah when Phillip found him; Phillip asked him if he understood what he was reading. He replied, "How can I, except some man should guide me?" And he asked Phillip a question or two, and Phillip answered him; then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

    It ain't enough to preach about Jesus for 2 minutes and encourage someone to say a prayer. You gotta preach Jesus, and let the Holy Spirit lead 'em.
     
  8. comforter

    comforter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't they also have to be at a point yo where they reconize they are a sinner, & need a saviour? If you don't see yourself as a sinner you would see no need for a saviour.
     
  9. Doc Yankum

    Doc Yankum
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see the sinners prayer as a very dangerous tool, used by over zealous people who probably had the sinners prayer recited to them. It is one thing to witness to a lost person, but quiet another to try to replace the working of the Holy Spirit in the process of salvation
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    If God's Spirit is regenerating a soul, it really doesn't matter if they repeat a little prayer-ditty on the back of a tract or Mary had a Little Lamb.

    God saves the soul and changes the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

    The problem is too many today are looking for (1) Numbers - like how many did YOU win to the Lord this week or (2) Fire Insurance - like say this mantra and you won't go to hell.

    Funny how the same ones who condemn the watered-down invitation of Billy Graham do the exact same thing in their "soul winning". Hmmmm. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Doc Yankum

    Doc Yankum
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well said, Doctor Bob
     
  12. comforter

    comforter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mary had a little lamb? Where did this new theology come from?
     
  13. ventin

    ventin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by comforter:
    Don't they also have to be at a point yo where they reconize they are a sinner, & need a saviour? If you don't see yourself as a sinner you would see no need for a saviour.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They cant recongnise they are sinners if they dont noe they are dealing with a HOLY GOD! :(
     
  14. comforter

    comforter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    we don't deal with Him, He deals with us. Through the Holy Spirit. Thats how we reconize our sinfulness.
     
  15. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ventin:
    we saw many tracts ending with the sinner's prayer. Does reciting that prayer saves? Does scriptures teach sinner's prayer? If not,why issit there? :confused:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ventin,

    You hit on a subject that has really become a concern of mine in the last couple of years. Unfortunately, I was led to believe, in the past, that a person needed to pray a prayer to be saved. Frankly the prayer (Rom 10:9,10,13) was the most important step in the “plan of salvation,” for without it the “net was not closed” and the “process” was not finished. No personal worker I knew would ever introduce a person as saved who had not prayed the “sinners prayer.”

    We Evangelicals despise the teaching of baptismal regeneration (receiving God's grace through baptism) but may of us turn right around and do the same thing through "prayerismal regeneration" (receiving God's grace through a prayer). Praying a prayer “to be saved” has as much scriptural backing as baptismal regeneration (Zippo).

    As some have mentioned already, the matter of a person seeing their lost and helpless condition is crucial. Using the standard “plan of salvation,” it is not hard to get someone to admit that they are a sinner. The problem is that there is a huge difference between a sinner and a helpless sinner. A sinner can realize that they are in danger and try to do something about it (give money, confess sins, take communion, get baptized, attend religious service, or walk an aisle or say a prayer). A helpless sinner on the other hand understands that they are TOTALLY helpless to do anything to get out of God's righteous punishment of sin. A helpless sinner will never find satisfaction in a prayer they pray or any other actions they do. A helpless sinner could only find satisfaction in the WORK that a merciful and loving God has already done for them, through Christ.
     
  16. Glory Bound

    Glory Bound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is interesting. I can see how some may mistakenly use the "sinner's prayer". But isn't there also a place for it in the proper manner?

    I thought most of the tracts I've seen indicate that the sinner must recognize that he is a sinner, totally separated from God with no hope of his own to be saved.

    Then the fact that Jesus came and died on the cross, to rise the 3rd day to pay the sin debt of those who will accept him as Lord and Savior.

    If the sinner understands these concepts, and wants to repent of his sins, then what is the matter with the "sinner's prayer?" Doesn't the sinner, in praying that prayer, acknowledge his sinfullness, repent of his sins, and promise to follow Christ as Lord and Savior?

    We've all seen scripture taken out of context and used incorrectly. This prayer is no exception. But used properly, it's not the words - it's the understanding of his condition, and his desire to repent and follow Christ that's important. The prayer is verbalizing this decision.

    Or am I missing a fine line that some of you see in this issue?
     
  17. Joy

    Joy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Every year at the beginning of the new school year, evangelists are called in for a week of meetings at most Bible colleges and churches. (Sometimes this actually happens several times a year.) It seemed like it is their goal to get everyone lost again so that they can rack up their numbers some more. Most of the students who went forward when I was in college were from godly Christian homes and had been saved at early ages. They were there to better learn how to serve the Lord.

    I found it very interesting that their new testimonies always included, "I wasn't sure I was saved, because I don't know if I said the right thing, or if I meant it.

    If you call any Bible college and ask for the percentages on this, it is very high.

    What is also high, is the number of invitations in Baptist Churches, for salvation. Are there some who don't believe? Sure, but why operate on the assumption that everyone is unsaved in your church? Either we believe in eternal security, or we don't. If we are preaching that you must recite a specific prayer or be sorry enough, and then give the same invitation to the same people and expect them to respond the same way every time, we aren't preaching the Word of God. No one gets discipled this way either, but that is just what the devil wants. If folks don't know their doctrine, they won't know any better.
     
  18. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glory Bound:
    The prayer is verbalizing this decision.

    Or am I missing a fine line that some of you see in this issue?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You hit the nail on the head there. The prayer does nothing more than verbalize a decision- and there are too many people out there using the sinner's prayer as a means of salvation. And then they turn around and say "I lead John Doe to Christ". In which I say "You what!?! I thought only the Holy Spirit could lead someone to Christ".

    I believe that used "properly" the sinner's prayer is okay. Yet, I have yet to see it used properly. I think the best thing we can do is trash the sinner's prayer, and use spontaneous prayer (instead of recited) after a person is saved, so that we know that they do not think it is by any prayer that they are saved.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  19. Glory Bound

    Glory Bound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joy:
    What is also high, is the number of invitations in Baptist Churches, for salvation. Are there some who don't believe? Sure, but why operate on the assumption that everyone is unsaved in your church?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hmm. While my church has an invitation after almost all Sunday morning services, I have never gotten any impression anywhere that it was thought that "everyone" was unsaved in the church. The thing is, statistically, with a medium to large church, you know that some are not saved. I've even seen it mentioned that a significant portion of church members are not saved. Then, how about those who want to "rededicate" their lives to God?


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    I think the best thing we can do is trash the sinner's prayer, and use spontaneous prayer (instead of recited) after a person is saved, so that we know that they do not think it is by any prayer that they are saved.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't know, but my impression of a "sinner's prayer" is not simply recited. If you lead someone in a prayer, and they don't understand the meaning, then what do you have. I guess that's your problem with the whole idea. The way I see it, the sinner needs to understand the concepts behind the prayer before praying it. At least basically.

    This concept of explaining the prayer before praying is the same concept that we should then take and mentor the new believer so that they get a good foundation before being sent out on their own.
     
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    As per the book Validity of Childhood Religious Conversions by ME (humility is not one of my virtues) a survey was completed in a number of Bible Colleges dealingwith pre-pubescent "conversions".

    Over 85% needed ANOTHER decision to either "get saved" or "get assurance". Much of this has to do with the emotional and psychological development of the child.

    Parroting a "sinner's prayer" leads to unstable teens/young adults and the need to truly come to grips with salvation.
     

Share This Page

Loading...