Does the Soul or Spirit Carry Consciousness?

I believe the Spirit and Soul are two words describing the same thing. The phrases are used interchangeably in Scripture.

Even though Scripture may not say which component carries the conscious, it's definately not the physical. Since we are both material and immaterial, the conscious must lie within the immaterial.

Case in point. When neurologists do tests on the brain, the person must be awake...conscious. The Dr. can touch parts of the brain to physically trigger the movement of limbs, but when asked by the Dr. if the patient moved their limb or not, the patient will reply "no, you did". The conscious is not linked to the mind, so it must be linked to the soul / spirit.

 

Consider what happens when a person dies. They no longer have a body but apparently the immaterial self has a consciousness. And for the unsaved the consciousness of their immaterial self must be a reality since they won't receive a resurrected or glorified body yet they will stand before God to be judged and account for their sins their has to be a consciousness present.

 

(Luk 23:46 KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Gill, Baptist theologian says:

Christ's spirit did not die, nor sleep, nor lose consciousness. Neither will ours.

 

The difference, IMO, is that neither the material nor the immaterial need each other to "survive". You can grab a dead corpse and keep the body alive well after the soul is gone with machines...and the soul / spirit obviously does not need the body to survive, either.

Well, physiologically, the Dr. is moving the limb...but consciously the "person" is not in control. While the brain moves the body, the consciousness works alongside the brain controlling it.

Also, if you were to lose both arms and legs, would you consider yourself only 50% you? Of course not. We...what makes us, us, is our conscious, and that is definately immaterial.

 

Sure but you left off the rest of my response which was SCRIPTURAL. Nevertheless here it is again:

And for the unsaved the consciousness of their immaterial self must be a reality since they won't receive a resurrected or glorified body yet they will stand before God to be judged and account for their sins their has to be a consciousness present.

Now I gladly can post the passage that deals with this reality if you are not familiar with the unsaved and their judgment.

But if that doesn't do the Bible clearly states: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". So you believe someone will be present with the Lord (a believer) and absent from the body yet without being conscious?

 

So God is dead??

 

So you are suggesting they are given their rotted bones, their 1,000 year old bodies back that have broken down into whatever basic elements? Is this the suggestion? I see believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies but I see no place unbelievers are reconstituted physically anywhere. The stark difference may not be made in the form of an elementary sentence stating, "Oh by the way, unbelievers don't get their rotted, decomposed and broken into elements of carbon and so on back and neither do they get a glorified body" but since below you find "PLAUSIBILITY" an acceptable form of reasoning and arguing, well I find such deductions more than just plausible but quite reasonable to support the view unbelievers aren't getting their decomposed bodies back.

It can be taken "phenomenologically" but it doesn't have to and the text doesn't indicate that force in its use.

Here is 2 Corinthians 5:

Paul makes the context clear, it is in the context of literally either being in the body and absent from the Lord or absent from the body and present with the Lord. Interestingly Paul adds in the 10th verse the judgment seat where, when we are present with the Lord (and absent from the body) we are accounting for the things done in the body. A bit difficult to account without being conscious, eh?

 

I am not sure if you know how to argue from the point of logic.
The law of biogenesis states that life only comes from life.
That renders all of your examples useless. There is no life in NaCl. It is simply the combination of two elements together. Minerals have no life; no consciousness.

Life is something that man cannot create. He can "make" a computer similar to a brain, but he cannot put life into the brain. He can't even do that with plant life. He cannot do that which only God can do--create life. When we come to the animal kingdom, God has put into each and every animal a soul; and furthermore into man he has put his spirit, thereby differentiating him from animals.

When given the evidence that Christ gave up his human spirit unto the Father: "Into thy hands I commend my spirit," you denied his conscious spirit in heaven, and thereby declared Christ (God) dead! For Christ is both fully man and fully God at the same time.

 

Please make sure you ignore the rest of the post. But for this singular response where you avoided having to deal with the more substantive portion of my response attached to the post you responded to here, my view was about the day of judgment, not that they were already in heaven facing judgment. But for you elementary introduction, "those that sleep in the ground" is synonymous for those that are dead. But in case you were anxious to deal with the rest of the earlier post I will repost it for you:

It can be taken "phenomenologically" but it doesn't have to and the text doesn't indicate that force in its use.

Here is 2 Corinthians 5:

Paul makes the context clear, it is in the context of literally either being in the body and absent from the Lord or absent from the body and present with the Lord. Interestingly Paul adds in the 10th verse the judgment seat where, when we are present with the Lord (and absent from the body) we are accounting for the things done in the body. A bit difficult to account without being conscious, eh?

 

After we finished the thread " When we die do we go directly to the Heaven?", I thought about the new thread " What are the souls doing after the death of the bodies?" But I don't want to duplicate the issues now.
However, my stance is somehow different from Andre's.

1. Soul and Spirit
I believe that the souls and the spirits are different elements of human beings.
a) 1 Thess 5:23 clearly teaches us the Trichotomy ( we should not change the Bible by the interpretation)
b) Heb 4:12 tells us that the Words of God divide the souls and spirit asunder
c) Mary praised by the soul ( Luke 1:46) and by the spirit ( 1:47)
d) ca. 500 verses for soul and another 500 verses for spirit teach us a certain difference.

Souls represent the persons, while the spirits are the parts by which Believers praise the Lord, obey God, preserving the eternal entity in the deepest heart. Souls have the emotion and the ideas even after the separation from the brain which is the part of the body. The body is supposed to be subjugated to the soul as in Col 3:5. But the souls of the carnal believers are often tempted to be subjugated to the flesh ( 1 Cor 3:3-4. Gal 5:16-, Col 3:5 ). Mature believers are walking in the Spirit filled with Holy Spirit.
I believe the souls are attached to the spirits after the death, and therefore this cannot be an issue on this thread.

2. Souls carry the memory of this world and therefore I believe they are conscious even after the death.
Re 6:9-11 tells us the Souls of the Martyrs remember the persecution and death on this world and ask for the vengeance, until they enter the rest.
Even in the story of Richman and Lazarus, the richman remembers his brothers.

3. Though the souls still carry the consciousness and memory, they are normally sleeping after the death, except the time when God calls them, awakes them.
a) Souls represent the human beings, the persons of the believers and unbelievers.
Numerous Bible verses support this.
In the previous thread, the title was " When we die, do we go directly to the Heaven?" What are " we" after the death of the body? Each person after the death means ' the soul of that person'
This is undeniable when we search the Bible.

b) Bible tells us that the dead person sleeps all the time. Bible would not say that the person is sleeping while he or she is singing and praising God.
Such Bible verses are as follows:

Lazarus fell asleep ( Jn11)

Stephen fell asleep ( Ac 7:60)

Sinned Believers sleep ( 1 Cor 11:30) after death

We shall not all sleep ( 1 Cor 15:51) ( We shall sleep, otherwise, if we sing and praise God, then he wouldn’t have said so)

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope ( 1 Th 4:13) ( Because Paul knew that they were sleeping !)

God will bring them who are sleeping in Jesus ( 1 Th 4:14)

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep ( 1 Th 4:15)

Who died for us, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. ( 1 Th 5:10) – we see sleep is used in contrast to Wake. ( Were they praising?)


Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished ( 1 Cor 15:18)


Are the souls praising the Lord?

Ps 88:10
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Ps 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

 

Genesis 1.