Doug Batchelor and Soul Sleep

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by untangled, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. untangled

    untangled
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    I was wondering if any of you have heard of this man? He has a ministry called "Amazing Facts". I knew something was wrong with his preaching the first time I heard it but I went to his site and found it to be heretical.

    He teaches "soul sleep". In some of his literature he also claims that the correct day of worship (He believes Saturday) is required to get to Heaven. He claims on TV that people that differ in these things are still Christians but on his literature he claims they are lost.

    What gives??? Any comments on him or soul sleep?

    IN Christ,

    Brooks
     
  2. OldRegular

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    Soul sleep is false doctrine.
     
  3. APuritanMindset

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    In my doctrine class at school we actually had a heated debate over the issue. I stayed out of the debate and eventually got fed up and made the comment that debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is more beneficial. I wasn't well received. But in that class was the first time I'd even heard of the doctrine.

    Someone coming along reading this may not know what it is. Could someone more knowledgable give a brief definition for us here?
     
  4. Phillip

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    He sounds like he is basing salvation on works, not on the grace of Jesus Christ.

    Soul sleep? There is Lazarus and the rich man and the thief on the cross.
     
  5. untangled

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    Phillip,

    He explained the thief of the cross as a grammatical error. The greek does not have commas. So he said that Jesus meant "As of today, you will be with me in paradise" meaning that he was going to be with Jesus someday. He's a really arrogant man. He bases salvation on works and you also must believe in soul sleep. He said, "It affects how you'll end up at the ressurection". Of course he gave scripture from Job and some other places and explains away "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

    He stated that our soul is the "breath of life". When we die our breath/soul goes back to God but we are not aware because we are dead. He says the soul is basically what makes us live. He claims the only scriptural evidence is toward actual complete death without a bit of life anywhere.

    The ressurection is only bodily in his opinion. After seeing him I have decided not to watch INSP again. They'll let anyone with money preach there.

    Soul sleep is becoming more popular. Its scary and heretical. He's almost in line with the JW's on most of his doctrine. Funny what people will believe.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  6. Ben W

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    I have tangled several times with people that are into Soul Sleep of the dead, in particular members of the various WCOG breakaways.

    What convinces me that they are not right is that focus on the "Grammatical Error" consider what they are really saying, - the Bible is incorrect and we need to change it to make it fit our own doctrine. That alone should be enough to warn anyone that they are into heresy.

    Being at Bible college has really opened my eyes to alot of things, and it is interesting that people from the Oneness Pentecostals and the UCOG type groups are not allowed to attend mainstream Bible Colleges. Because when you are there, you see what did happen at the council of Nicea and see that it most certainley was all above board and that there was no made up Trinity doctrine. Also you may happen to speak to people that really do know alot about New Testament Greek who will tell you surprise surprise that there is a "Pause" in the NT Greek where the Comma is anyway!

    Besides the fact that if you look at the story of Lazuras in the Bible, look at how Jesus responds to the idea -

    John 11:24

    Martha - I know thgat he will rise again at the Resurection at the last day.

    John 11:25

    Jesus - I am the ressurection and the life, He who believes in me, though he may die, yet shall he live.
     
  7. untangled

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    Doug Batchelor spends most of his time preaching against fundamental Christian beliefs. The thing that gets me most is the soul sleep. He takes scripture out of context alot. Why would anyone believe that? I know some people who say they would not seperate from someone who believes and preaches that but I must. He's not too far from a cult leader. :mad:

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  8. mcgyver

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    Sounds suspiciously like Armstrong-isim to me....
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    To the best of my knowledge, Doug Batchelor is a Seventh Day Adventist. Therefore we should not be surprised to find some un-orthodox teachings. The SDA's, like some other groups, cover a pretty wide range of teachings, so I am in favor of taking their preachers or teachers on an individual basis, and with caution.
     
  10. untangled

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    Hey Brother Jim,

    It sounds like to me he teaches more along the line of the JW's. Haven't heard him preach on the 144,000 yet but it would not surprise me.

    I think he's a heretic myself. It just amazes me that INSP would support his ministry by letting him be on there. There are no good Christian stations around.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  11. Marcia

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    Batchelor Senior Pastor of an SDA church. That's why he advocates Soul Sleep. "Amazing Facts" says officially they are not part of the SDA, but they are connected to the SDA.

    Note the 3rd paragraph:
    A lot of churches and organizations use names that do not reveal their true affiliation. Cults like Rev. Moon's church, the Church of Scientology, Eckankar, Int'l Churches of Christ, the Family, etc. sometimes have dozens of front groups. The Family, a group started by David Berg (later became Moses Berg) and that taught "flirty fishing" and other perversions, sells children's videos that I've seen on Christian websites. Can't recall the name of the video company now, but if the ministry bothered to google the video name, they would eventually see it listed on the Family's site. Everything needs to be checked out carefully.
     
  12. Pennsylvania Jim

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    You may be right on the mark. I've never watched him for a whole show or even a major part of one, so I don't want to draw any conclusions myself.
     
  13. Marcia

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    I just posted the fact that Batchelor is SDA. I've known this for awhile. He's not a JW nor Armstrongian.

    From the link I just posted above!
    Their show "It Is Written" has been showing on a So. Baptist TV network. :eek:
     
  14. untangled

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    Marcia
    2,000 Posts Club
    Member # 8589

    posted March 22, 2005 06:46 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just posted the fact that Batchelor is SDA. I've known this for awhile. He's not a JW nor Armstrongian.

    From the link I just posted above!

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Media Ministries
    The Seventh-day Adventist Church has many affiliated broadcast ministries that are seen every day on radio and television.

    . . . Amazing Facts was founded in 1965 by Joe Crews in Baltimore, Maryland. Inspired by the success of the Voice Of Prophecy, Crews' original objective was to reach out to both Christian and non-Christian listeners via daily 15-minute programs by opening with a catchy historic fact, and how it applies to the overall Biblical messages. Later, the program offered accompanying home Bible study courses, as well as books written by Crews himself. In 1987, Amazing Facts initiated a television ministry. In 1993, after Joe Crews' passing, Doug Batchelor assumed the position as Director/Speaker, and has held that position ever since. Today, Amazing Facts broadcasts mainly out of Sacramento, California.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Their show "It Is Written" has been showing on a So. Baptist TV network. "

    I knew from your last post that he was a SDA. His theology is horrible. It saddens me that a Baptist TV network would play that garbage.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  15. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Don't hold back, Brooks, tell us what you really think. :D
     
  16. untangled

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    Brother Jim,

    It just saddens me to see how ecumenical some can be to even accept such doctrine as his and others as Christian. Next we will have services from the Mormon Tabernacle on all the Christian stations. [​IMG]

    It just bothers me that a supposedly Christian station would play that without reservation.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  17. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Sure, I see what you mean. Not having heard much of Batcheler myself I don't want to voice too much of my opinion, but certainly understand and respect yours.

    Actually I consider SDA's to be in a different category than Mormons or JW's. I know SDA's who I sincerely believe are saved people. I've even on occasions quizzed them about some of the heretical SDA doctrines, and they flat-out claim that they are don't hold to them, and the it's mainly the "old-timers" who do.

    Interesting, isn't it...an example where, within their structure, the "liberals" are the ones who hold to the scriptures and the "conservatives" are the heretics. The world is full of surprises.

    BTW, just as an aside...the SDA's are very visible on the "Sky Angel" satellite network, and the quality, style, and content of their musical is FAR more Godly than 75% of the musical content of the evangelical broadcasters. Shame on us.
     
  18. Marcia

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    The problem is that the SDA official teachings still hold to soul sleep, Jesus entering the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 for the Investigative Judgment, and those who are worshiping on Sunday when Jesus comes back will received the mark of the beast. In other words, we who worship on Sunday are not going to heaven according to the SDA church.

    Like the JW's they teach that there is annihiliation, not hell.
     
  19. JohnB

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    I too am bothered when ministries serve up an admixture of truth and error.

    Batchelor's broadcast is on Oneplace.com, a streaming audio resource for dozens of ministries, right along side J Vernon Mcgee and other orthodox teachers.

    And this is common on the radio to. Locally, a station broadcasts Voice of Prophecy with Lonnie Melashenko right alongside John MacArthur and Chuck Swindoll.

    Yet VOP is an arm of the SDA church. I found this out after he spent a week promoting vegitarianism which caused me to wonder. After I looked up his website and dug around, I found out he is SDA.

    Wheat and tares...
     
  20. untangled

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    They even have Batchelor on a local station here. Maybe I shouldn't make a big deal about it but it bothers me that they will let him preach heresy over the airwaves of a supposedly Christian station. :mad:
     

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