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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Oct 27, 2012.
Excellent message, thanks for sharing.
Thanks my friend, well done.
Wow, he said something most people, much less Pastors, are reluctant to admit publicly- criticizing this President is often portrayed as a racist act. For nationally known Pastors to speak up and risk the scrutiny of the IRS means that we are indeed in a big mess in this country. Furthermore, a Baptist (can we call him that if it's not in his church name? ) preacher endorsing a Mormon for office is not the norm.
He questions Obama's fear of God. He then addressed whether Mitt Romney is a Christian. He said he can not know without looking into his heart. Then he delineated the difference between Mormanism and orthodox Chrisitianity. His final conclusion is that in his opinion, Mitt Romney is not a Christian. He proceeds to say that we are not electing his faith, but his perceived actions as President. He said that we need to elect leaders that have a respect for God and for the unborn. He says that Obama and Romney are both for abortion, but Romney only if in cases of rape, incest, or indangerment of the life of the mother, but Obama is fully pro choice.
He then goes on to say we need leaders who respect family values. He says he admires Obama's love for his family. This leads into Obama's support for gay marriage, and Romney's objection to the same.
He brings up the Abrahamic covenant and applies it to the way we treat Israel. Romney is the clear choice for one that respects Israel, while Obama's middle east policy is against Israel and has strained our relationship with Israel. He says that Obama has thrown Israel under the bus. He then quotes Noah Webster concerning electing men that fear God, not unprincipled men, thereby putting in danger the rights of the public.
He appears to be trying to reach Christians that are not going to vote because they don't feel they can vote for either candidate.
Tells how he got involved Billy and Franklin Graham with putting out a full page ad in national newspapers and how they have raised 3.8 million dollars to do so. They targeted key battleground states and papers like the Wall Street Journal, etc.
He then chastises Christians that won't do something about the mess that we are in. Quotes Charles Finney concerning getting involved with politics and voting for honest men.
Ends by saying he has done with his actions what he thinks God has impressed him to do and gets a standing ovation.
Well, he had better watch out for the IRS now. I give him credit for standing up for what he believes.
Although I have not been a regular follower of DJ I completely concur 100% in his statements and applaud him. This is cannon fodder for the ones who want to silence the christian voice in our country today. Just remember, It is getting gloriously dark.
So does that mean he questions Romney's fear of God too since he rejects God?
I thought Baptists went through this whole exercise long ago. That's why Mormonism is listed as a cult.
And this is where he really loses me. If we're not electing the man's faith, then why keep bringing up their faiths and what one respects and the other doesn't? we know how Obama has thumbed his nose to God. But every evangelical preacher keeps preaching as though Romney worshiping a false god is not also thumbing his nose to God. If you worship a false god, how is that having respect for God? If you don't respect God, can there be a true respect for His creation?
Maybe I'm missing something here. but there seems to be a direct contradiction in what he is setting as a criteria for Obama but not for Romney.
This is unrighteous justifying. If they are both for abortion, then they are both for abortion. Stop trying to put man's spin on it.
Biblical family values center around God. so again, Romney rejects God so how do we deduce that he respects the values of the One he rejects?
I have a very difficult time accepting the discernment of anyone who tries to put a Godly bow on anything that one who rejects God does.
So that he agree with that major compromise of taking Mormonism off the list of cults?
He's right. But it is still wickedness to try and chastise them into voting for that which is against Christ.
He should be okay then with the folks who feel that God won't allow them to vote for either candidate.
I won't get into your line by line critique, but the gist of the whole sermon was that a Christian should vote for the one who best represents their values. He then made the case why Romney fits the bill. Romney, while not a Christian, will uphold his faith. Obama, while claiming to be a Christian, rejects traditional Christian values. Thus, vote for Romney. It is the lesser of two evils argument. But make no mistake, there are levels of evil, and he has it pegged right here when he asserts that Obama is the greater evil. All who don't vote, vote for Obama and the status quo. If you think that is what God has impressed you to do, then don't complain if you get what you deserve.
What he made the case for is the same false teaching that has come from others on this issue and he is likewise trying to justify it. His preaching like so may others is POLITICALLY, not GOD, motivated.
And how do I know this? Because of the hypocrisy. He says we are not electing someone's faith. But then says we need to elect leaders who have a respect for God and the unborn.
How does he deduce that Romney who worships a false god has a respect for God?
How does he go from not electing someone's faith to delineating between Obama and Romney on issues of faith (respect for God and the unborn)?
So either we're electing faith or not.
But we're not electing someone's faith, so why is this at issue? And if it is, how does the worshiper of a false god uphold his faith by rejecting the backbone of his faith?
Is rejecting the Jesus Christ of the Bible a traditional Christian value now?
Evil is evil. And God hasn't called us to in any way support that which is against Him.
And don't be surprised if the country gets what it deserves as the result of Christians constantly claiming to be doing God a favor by voting for the lesser of two evils that is against Him.
That's the definition of wickedness that apparently many in the Body have been blinded to.
You're voting for Obama..........we get it. :tongue3:
Guess that means you're voting for the false god-worshiper to whom evangelicals keep trying to attribute to be closest to representing Christian values.
Let me put it to you plainly, pal. You are supporting a marxist that has one goal: to redistribute wealth to the government. The poor will never see it. You clowns are the reason we are in the mess we are in now. Grow up and repent of your stupidity, please
Feel free to refer to me as Zaac. That's why the name is up there.:thumbsup:
And you're obviously supporting a false god worshiper whose false teachings will help direct a lot of folks to an eternal lake of fire.
But like I've said before, this is all about y'all's pocketbooks and your 401ks and stuff that you can leave to your kids and grandkids and your "quality of life". It's about money.
Forget the folks that his teachings may send to hell. He's gonna save your wealth from being redistributed.
So what? God's already told you that the poor will always be with you. God can provide for the poor just like He will bring peace to the Middle East.
The reason we're in the mess we're in now is because Christians think they can hide their wicked love of their wealth and money behind the name of Christ. So if anyone needs to repent, it would be those whose love of money obviously outweighs their love for Christ.
You are obviously supporting Obama by abusing Scripture, not for any pure purpose like exposing Mormonism, but to push through a liberal, socialist, Obama agenda. You are about as concerned about a false god worshiper as a Republican Congressman is about abortion.
The Obama hate is obvious. You need to work on that.
Thanks for sincere, honest advice.
Both worship false gods, well, its a choice between a cultist who at least honors the moral law of god, and one who professes christ, but is really a Muslim at heart, and one who profanes and denies the moral law of God!
Zach, I think I know where you're coming from... It seems I have different views than some here about the role of government in society. But, can you please help me understand how the correct position would be to support the idea that it is beneficial and effecient for government to coerce the population to support the poor? It seems you promote the idea that government is the way it should be done.
I'm trying to assemble the pro-government, pro-economical-interventionist theories and reconcile them to a Christian's view of the world in which NONE of the kingdoms of this world can be God's kingdom.
YIKES! God forgive me if that's how I've come across. I'm as about anti-big government as they come. Government is doing the stuff that God intended for the Church to do. And we keep giving up ground to the government to do these things.
None of them can be which is why it makes no sense for Christians to act so sold out for one party over the other, when ultimately, they do the same unGodly things.
Our focus is to be on eternity. We've bought into this concept that as government goes, so goes the country. So much so, that it's got evangelical Christians laying aside Biblical wisdom and supporting a man whose mere presence in the public eye elevates the platform of a false god.
The country is in disarray because CHRISTIAN homes are in disarray.There's no need to talk about The Democrats being pro-this and the Republicans being pro-that.
We need a discourse on what the Church is/is not doing.
So bump Obama.
Bump the Dems.
And bump the Repubs.
The Christian focus MUST be on God's eternal Kingdom and snatching folks from the flames of an eternal lake of fire.
I keep asking the question of why the Church is so passionate about this election and same-sex marriage and abortion, yet you see none of this same passion about sharing the Gospel with those who are lost.
We've lost our focus and our wicked ways has the country and the world in turmoil.
I'm a firm believer that the more disobedient the Church is, the less the Holy Spirit restrains the evil of this world to run rampant. And when the Holy Spirit completely steps aside, the Anti-Christ will step in.
Zaac, do you realize just how much you've contradicted yourself within this very post?
Thanks, you've clarified a misconception I had about you. Maybe you can help me a little further... what do you believe is the role of Government? How is a society (let's imagine here...) made up of mostly Christians supposed to conduct and govern in the areas of its responsibilities? What levels of participation should Christians be involved? In such a scenario, why wouldn't it be alright if there were two predominant views to every problem regarding governmental policy?
Imo, no matter who you're trying to convince otherwise, they already have a way to resolve the tensions that they perceive to exist. For you (us?) to argue that they should not think as they do does not offer a realistic answer. If we are to hope that they change thinking they must be able to at least see what you have to offer as an answer to the tension they are perceiving... if you have no answer but still imploring a change then they will assume that you are offering the antithesis to the ideas they currently hold. We westerners tend to think dialectically and often can fail to see a third way.