Early Church Fathers

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Brother Adam, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    One thing I've found curious since my "conversion" to the Baptist faith 3 years ago is the early Christian writers are pretty much totally ignored in fundamental circles. I'm wondering why? I have on rare occassion heard mention of Augustine in SS, but he isn't even an ante-nicene father.

    As a Lutheran we often heard mention, in class or in church of, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Origen, Tertullian, Justin Martyr, and so on.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Augustine is one of the Catholic Churh's heroes. He also was a "Calvinist," in the sense that that is where Calvin got most of his doctrine.
    Irenaeus had some strange beliefs such as Christ living to be an old man.
    Origen was an outright heretic, the father of Arianism. It is quite possible that it was he who tampered with some of the early Alexandrian manuscripts.
    Tertullian believed in baptismal regeneration. His beliefs changed near the end of his life when he became a Montanist.

    With so many "heresies" and varying ideologies going around in the early centuries, Baptists have always been ones to "stick to the Book." That is, we belief that the Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. The Bible never changes. Man's ideas change constantly. We go straight to the source--God's Word, instead of relying on what fallible man may say.
    It is important to use resource material. But the Bible has the final say.
    DHK
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The early church fathers have a high degree of "Weight" on the subject of doctrine because they are so close to the actual Apostles. Howver since we can actually READ the writings of the actual Apostles directly - it is not like we "need" the Church leaders of the following centuries to tell us "what to think".

    They "add to the picture" - but the "source" is available to all. We can go directly to the Word of God and read it "for ourselves" and can be confident that it is "sufficient" for all doctrine (2Tim 3:16-17).

    If we were placing "more emphasis" on "the wonders of church tradition" we would have more "need" to go to the centuries following the Bible writers to get "added instruction".

    The Caveat of course is the Act 20 information that IN those following centuries "grevious wolves were going to come in" teaching doctrines of demons - introducing error... etc.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have noticed in reading and studying about the church fathers, that they mention isolated points of orthodoxy like Christ coming for His saints, the Kingdom Age, Hell and the kingdom of God, but it never appears is a systematic form like Calvin's Institutes.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Many religions follow "men" - great leaders, founders, teachers - and give credance to their writings as EQUAL AUTHORITY to the Bible.

    Out here in Wyoming, we face that with the LDS.

    I am an IFB Baptist and have read and use the Nicene and Ante-Nicene Fathers. While NOT on any sort of "par" with the Word, they have some good insights.

    And some bad.

    And some ugly.
     
  6. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok. I'm just curious, because it would seem that there would be some weight given to their writings- while in no way on par with the Bible. Especially if they all agree on something.
     
  7. mioque

    mioque
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob Griffin
    "I am an IFB Baptist and have read and use the Nicene and Ante-Nicene Fathers. While NOT on any sort of "par" with the Word, they have some good insights.
    And some bad.
    And some ugly. "
    Amen! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    DHK
    "Origen was an outright heretic, the father of Arianism. It is quite possible that it was he who tampered with some of the early Alexandrian manuscripts."
    Origenes was probably insane and certainly a heretic, however he is not quite as bad as you paint him.
    The father of Arianism is simply Arius, who incorporated elements of Origenes's work here and there, but in those days everybody quoted Origenes.
    If Origenes is to be called the father of anything at all (having yourself castrated doesn't help here), he ought to be called the father of textual criticism and that is a title to be proud of.

    Ray
    The whole concept of describing asystematic Christian theology, could be considered an invention of the scholastic theologians of the middle ages .
     
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Just saw an A&E program on the crucifixion. A lot of interest in the event!!

    Seven different "name-brand" (Harvard, etc) modern Church fathers/theologians all agreed that the Bible was wrong.

    So "agreement" of the leaders does NOT make them correct. Actually, if they ALL agree, they are probably WRONG!
     
  9. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting. All Baptists scholars I have read believe in Sole Fide and Sola Scriptura. It must be wrong! [​IMG] ;)
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Don't think any Baptist scholar would want to be classified by Catholics as a "church father"! I sure wouldn't take that as a compliment!
     
  11. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    You know what I mean. ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...