Early NT MSS Discovered...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Early NT MSS have been discovered by the Dr. Wallace of DTS led team (CSNTM).

    Source for more on this: Early NT MSS.
     
  2. Deacon

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    Rather cryptic notice.

    Any guesses as to where the documents were photographed?

    clues:
    100 degrees
    generally uncooperative establishment
    Parchment, not papyrii
    collated against a Byzantine base text


    Perhaps Turkey???

    Sounds exciting!

    Rob
     
  3. TCGreek

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    Yes, indeed. :thumbs:

    Little by little we're getting to know more about this recent discovery.

    I'm really after the contents. :praying:
     
  4. EdSutton

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    I'm not sure if "discovered" is the correct term, here. The article goes on to say that "Hitler had shown an interest in one or two of these manuscripts during WWII." So it would seem that they have been 'known' to exist for at least some 64 years. That makes their existence known longer than that of the "Dead Sea Scrolls", of Qumran.

    "Collated", "transcribed", and "photographed" are not the same as "discovered".

    But it is still an interesting bit of news to learn about.
    Ed
     
  5. TCGreek

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    Ed, thanks for the fine-comb reading of the source material. I failed to do such. :tonofbricks:
     
  6. EdSutton

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    I didn't necessarily "fine tooth" it, just read the article. The name of Hitler caught my attention, as it was not a name I would have expected to see, in an article about this subject.

    Ed
     
  7. Deacon

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    Update

    The manuscripts are from Tirana, Albania, across the Adriatic sea from the heal of Italy.

    Wieland Willker writes:

    "What surprised us most was that three of the manuscripts completely lacked the
    story of the woman caught in adultery. Another had the story at the end of the
    Gospel."

    "As we investigated these manuscripts more, we discovered that one or two of
    them may be long-lost members of an important family of manuscripts known as
    family 13. In fact, they may be the earliest members of that family."

    Rob
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    From what I have read the story of the woman taken in adulery is not in the oldest texts. The general consensus is that it was added at some point. Errors slipped into the texts due to the intention of the scribe.

    By the third century, Origen complained that the differences among the manuscripts was great. Sometimes the scribe was well-intentioned as in the cases of the story of the woman taken in adultery and the ending of Mark.

    Very early Christians were not of the educated elite. Those who copied the very early manuscripts were not professionals and it is a miracle that more mistakes and additions as well as deletions did not take place. It was only after Christianity became the religion of the educated and upper crust that professional scribed began making copie of the New Testament. Can you imagine how boring it must have been to sit in the Mid-East heat of summer copying and copying and copying?
     
  9. John of Japan

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    Actually, it is entirely possible that Christians of the first century hired professional scribes sometimes. Remember that Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man, for example. Aquila and Priscilla were business people who could certainly have hired a professional scribe.

    As for Christians not being of the educated elite, the Apostle Paul was and Luke certainly was. No doubt others were also--the Pharisees who got saved, for example.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

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    It is possible, but from my readings this is not believed to be the general case.

    Surely there were Christians who were educated. But I am speaking in the general sense, that is the majority of the very early Christians were not highly educated. Recently I read, can't remember the book just now, that said it is believed that only 15% of the very early Christians could read. It was not until Christianity became the State church that it became a religion of the social elite and political powers.

    In my opinion the most tragic day in the history of Christianity was the day Constantine made it the State religion. Prior to this is was a house church. After this it became a religious institution and moved from the home. Also it guaranteed that centuries later Islam would become the dominate religion of the Mid-East. Why? Because Christianity was seen as in cooperation with the government in Rome, the hated political enemy of the Mid-East and Constantinople. We are still reaping the rewards of what Constantine did at that time.
     
  11. Palatka51

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    Wow, I am in complete agreement with you in this thought. :thumbs:
     
  12. Deacon

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    One of the earlier known manuscripts, P46 [LINK] dated to mid-second century has stichoi, marks that a professional scribe would use to assess payment.

    I’m sure Roger would enjoy arranging a BB field trip for a viewing it someday. :thumbs:

    But as you note, speculation is that the original documents may not have been copied professionally, leading to numerous errors early in the textual history of the NT.

    This “Ferrar Family” [Family 13] is typically dated between the eleventh to fifteenth centuries.
    These manuscripts are described as some of the “earliest members” of that grouping.
    Encountering the Manuscripts by Phillip Comfort [2005] LINK

    We'll have to continue keeping our eyes on this find and see what the professionals find.

    Rob
     
  13. Deacon

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  14. Salamander

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  15. John of Japan

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  16. HankD

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    Take heart brother, remember who has the last word in the history of this world.

    HankD
     
  17. Thinkingstuff

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    That is entirely untrue. What about Justin Martyr? There was a good mix. Keep in mind that the whole discussion about house churches are off. Because of what we consider them to be today. In the ancient world a house church was like a school of thought. Ususally the "house" was owned by a person of means and large enough to hold large number of people. When you look at an ancient world villa for instance I believe you'll be suprised. The early church weren't just a bunch of poor people that resembled hillbillies that just happened to be located in ancient Turkey, Greece or Rome.

    Unfortuantely John of Japan might not like this analogy but I think they closely resembled (not in thought but stylishness) the schools of thought or philosophy in China.
     
    #17 Thinkingstuff, Jun 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2008
  18. AntennaFarmer

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    Ahem. hillbillies!?......
     
  19. Bro. James

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    What if the real churches never went through Rome and the center of pseudo-churches continues to reside there? Then there are the Baptists who are not Protestants--an interesting discussion in itself.

    All Bibles are not the same. The same could be said for secular history. There is only one Word of God.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #19 Bro. James, Jun 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2008
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    Sorry, I knew that would raise eyebrows. I was trying to make a point of saying that what inferrenses we make about the early christians are incorrect because we compare them to things we know of today. To say that the early christians met in homes and were uneducated conjures up images of kitchen room bible studies in the appalachians. (I said that for effect) When in reality home churches in the ancient world were large estates (some of them) owned by wealthy people and many early christians were very educated. Justin Martyr wore the philosophers robe which indicates the educated elite. They worshiped in courtyards with tiled mossaic floors. Many christians were poor but they worshiped at their rich friends house. Until the Empire and greedy people wanted their property so they would accuse someone of being a christian so they could confiscate their lands, homes etc... and christian churches had to meet underground (sometimes literally)
     

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