Earned Income Credit

That is my problem as well. People should not get back a refund of money they hadn't even paid in. If it gets them down to paying zero income taxes that's one thing, but receiving a tax "return" of money they didn't pay in is not a return at all, but welfare.

And although this is a different argument completely, I am not sure that there wouldn't be some merit for everyone to pay in at least a token minimum amount of income taxes.

 

Now you repeatedly say welfare isn't the issue or the problem with the EIC.

However, that was your initial problem with it.

I'm confused.

What do you really think? Is it welfare or not? And if it is, how is welfare not part of the discussion?

 

The alternative to the EIC and food stamps, etc., in THIS economy is soup kitchen lines, dumpster diving and people living in alleys. Our owners don't want us to know how bad the economy is and welfare by electronic transfer is a smart way to hide the situation. The world has been divided into plantations and we all (on this list and the rest) are the neo-negros. (Is that word OK if used in context?)

 

I've gotta disagree.

The alternative to welfare is parents who teach kids a good work ethic, families that support other family members during tough times, and churches that help members instead of referring them to "other" places specifically designed to help.

I get the EIC. I do not get food stamps. I would not be living in an alley or eating out of a dumpster without it. When I was on food stamps it was because I stayed home to take care of my kids rather than put them in daycare at a cost which was more than what I had the potential to earn in an hour.

The answer? I got *some* education, which greatly helped.
I am also remarried now, which greatly helps. People weren't meant to support families without a partner.

Nobody made me poor or worked to keep me poor.

However, we the people have allowed our elected officials to redefine what poor is.

THAT is also part of the problem.

People call it abusive to raise kids without CONVENIENCES.

Things like washing machines, microwaves, televisions, telephones, computers, electricity, running water, and heating and cooling systems can all be marked conveniences.

There is nothing WRONG with washing your clothes by hand, there's nothing WRONG with bathing in a creek, there's nothing WRONG with using a woodstove to keep warm, there's nothing WRONG with hauling your own water for cooking, there's nothing WRONG with not being able to commicate at the drop of a hat.

Yet go to any "welfare" agency and you'll find that not having those things leave families open to charges of child neglect.

There's a WHOLE LOTTA people who think they're poor and they're not.

So don't suspect some big scam the government to keep people down.

Suspect a bunch of lazy, spoiled Americans of having no clue what it's like to truly be hungry or to have to physically work to get wood to stay warm, hunt for the major food sources and grow their own, put up a store for the winter, etc.. To most Americans, working to survive means having cash to buy stuff other people made to enable others to not have to work, which is a convenience, not a right.

 

Lets talk about whether or not this country can afford for people to "quit having children they can't afford". Lets also talk about what "affording" a child might constitute. And lets talk about what this country should do when a family goes from being able to "afford" their children to standing in an unemployment line.

one can talk about how unfair the EIC is, and you might even be right, but lets think about how "unfair" life is going to be when old people far out number the younger generation and there is no one left to care for all of them. Then we might be giving tax credits to young people for adopting an elderly person.

 

I've been eligible for the EIC twice. I refused it both times, because it would have meant I paid 0 taxes and received a "refund."

I made a personal decision that my consience wouldn't allow me to accept it.

I don't prescribe that for everyone...but that is what I felt led to do. So I did not file for the EIC.

(I now actually make enough to pay taxes, and make too much for the EIC, so the point is moot).

 

If you're talking about Social Security and Medicare, I think the problem of less working age people will be substantially mitigated. As the labor force contracts, there will be a smaller supply of labor and the law of supply and demand will cause wages to rise. That will mean more FICA taxes will be collected.

 

For those who qualify and refuse to accept the EIC, I'm curious.
That money stays with the government. Many Christians believe our government uses money for non-unethical purposes such as funding for abortion and programs that promote values that don't jive with Christian standards.

Instead of letting the government retain money they will be using, in part, for those purposes, why not accept it and then give it directly to places such as Christian centers that discourage parents from having abortions or towards other programs you feel help promote Christian values?

You could totally turn it around. You're doing nobody any good by not accepting it, are you? If you think you are, please list who benefits and why.

 

I'll bite.

Let's say I paid in $1,000 in taxes last year after everything was said and done.

And my form says I receive $300 EIC.

I'd take it...that's my money, and the law says it's mine to have back.


But....let's say I paid no taxes, and the 1040 says I receive same EIC.

I paid nothing. IMO, that's not my money to get back. It's coming out of someone else's pocket.

I would not ask for that EIC (and I have had this scenario happen--and taken this action in years past).

Once again...this is me acting on my conscience...not prescribing what I think others should do.

 

I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, "Encouraging" low income wage earners to continue working instead of giving up and going on "Aid". Is a good idea.

Yet, there is still that part of me that demands that everyone does their fair share.

That leads us back to a "Fair Tax" or a "Flat Tax".

But, that's another thread entirely...

 

I understand this rbell and people who remain committed to their values when there is no "punishment" for failing to do so leave me admiring the will-power of people like you!

However, let me say it in another way one more time just to make sure the concept was clear.

You may believe this is stolen money, but the government is NOT going to give it back so why not give it back to them yourself or use it for good if you don't know who to give it to that paid and got nothing back?

That's probably the fastest way to get it to stop. Can you imagine how ticked Obama and supporters would be if they found that this money...money they *can* find a way to keep, is being used to support stuff they hate, like pro-life centers and the CLA? Or given back to those it was taken from in the first place?
At the least, it would be less money for the government to do stupid things with, right?

 

I just thought I'd point out that it IS stolen money. Our taxes are appropriated under penalty of law with the purpose of supporting government functions as prescribed by out constitution.

Our constitution never established the redistribution of wealth - therefore the money is being used for dishonest purposes. That would be bad enough if it were being cheerully donated to the government for that purpose, but it is not.

This money's purpose is to buy loyalty to and dependency on the federal government.

 

That's It! Amen!

To the aspect of being robbed by Givernment.

I stand by my previous on the EIC, though.

As long as they as taking it, hopefully this is a way to do good with it...

 

No reason to be confused. The portion that one receives that is in excess of the taxes they pay is welfare.

It's simply a statement of fact.

 

Because my conscience tells me it isn't my money. I can't accept it or dictate its usage.

 

The problem with this issue is that we are giving into our artifical system of prosperity.

God says children are a blessing from God. Children were valued thousands of years ago because they assisted in not only in propegating the species but could assist with work. They were a retirement system because they were responsible for the ederly. However, in our current economic atmosphere we've devalued the human being and made us entirely reliant currency. In my mind to say we have children we can't afford is anathema. And goes against what God has in mind. To prioritize money over people is sick. Especially children.

The earned income credit is for people who work not people who don't work and part of what they recieve is money they've already paid in because we have a pay as you go system. The Fed has already earned interest of the money paid in throughout the year depriving each individual of the interest they could have earned on it. So its not entirely not their money certainly some of it is. Some of it is part of the interest earned on it while in Governement hands. That leave a very small portion being contributed by others. However, in the mean time we're helping a family survive. I have no problem with it.

 

Just a thought...

If in using the EIC, you get back *ALL* of the Taxes you paid in, and not one dime more, would it still be stealing?

My understanding is that the EIC is a credit granted for low income wage earners designed to reduce or eliminate their tax burden.

In my view as long as you don't take out more than you actually put it, it really isn't stealing.

Also, in the event that the EIC ends up giving back a bit more than you paid in, you could always give it as an offering or to charity.

This would be the case where not using the EIC you pay taxes, and using it you get back too much and there is no in between...

But, it *is* a personal choice.