Easter/Passover are they the same?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Wisdom Seeker, Jul 26, 2002.

  1. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
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    I have a question. This was brought to my mind by a Jewish friend of mine and then it was confirmed (somewhat) in church the following Sunday.

    If Easter is translated to mean Passover, (see Acts 12:4 and Strongs Concordance) And the Passover is a ritual to remember the passing over of the houses of the Jewish people who were in bondage in Egypt, during one of the plagues during Moses' time (killing of all the first born) , then why is Easter celebrated in Christian churches as remembrance of Jesus sacrafice on the cross only?

    I understand some of the correlations as to why the crucifiction is like passover, and I realize that the two things happened in the same time of the year. My question is this: Why is Easter celebrated in church to remember the crucifiction and resurection, but not to remember the passover? And how is it that a Jewish person could celebrate Passover without including a remembrance or believing that Jesus is the messiah, let alone that He died and rose again?

    I've also heard that the word Easter is taken from the Pagan god Vashti. (As if I wasn't confused enough)

    We don't call it Easter at our church, We call it Resurection Sunday.... never the less, I still would welcome any clarity to my quandry.

    Thank You,
    Wisdom Seeker
     
  2. HankD

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    Dear Wisdom seeker,

    It seems to me that "easter" in Acts, although "pascha" in the original language correlates to the Emperor's New Clothes.

    Many seem to see something, which is not there (or maybe it is there and we/I don't see it).

    We are told by some which are considered radical by others that "easter" in the Acts passage is a kind of "prophetic word" because Herod was not Jewish.

    I just don't see it.

    But from Luke's point of view this was the post-resurrection of Christ and James had been killed and Peter was in jail for the gospel's sake and the KJV translators wanted to accentuate the "Christian" nuance of this experience of the church. To me that's more feasible

    I guess that's possible but then that makes the KJV Translators practitioners of "Dynamic equivalence" or worse.

    My opinion of course.

    HankD
     
  3. Abiyah

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    Oh, Wisdom! You have opened a Major Can of
    Worms!! Easter and Passover are as different
    as 1 a.m. and 1 p.m.; their only similarities are
    that they are set aside by differing groups as
    holy days.

    The original Scriptures did not say "Easter";
    there was no Easter when they were written.
    The original words should have been translated
    "Passover" or "Pesach."

    Regarding Passover, when believers observe it
    properly, we do observe with it the death and
    resurrection of our Lord. Of course, this is also
    observed at Yom Kippur as well---two different
    holy days. The next holy day after that, Sukkot,
    is used to also celebrate His birth, because this
    is thought to be around the time He was born,
    and we camp outside in little booths we make
    from branches and leaves.

    Believe me, we celebrate Him, just not on the
    same days as you probably do!
     
  4. Farmer's Wife

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    Well, Wisdomseeker...I am not wise :D but I do try to use my cottonfield common sense!

    Easter and passover are NOT the same! We have been DUPED all these years of having easter egg hunts at our churches! UGH! :mad:

    Easter is a pagan holiday and the KJBible is correct in using this term in Acts 12:4. Think about this...If easter was a 'christian' celebration then why would Herod wait until after easter to bring Peter forth to the people to be killed? Was Herod gracious?? :rolleyes: you know..."Peter, I'm gonna kill you for being a christian, but go ahead and celebrate and enjoy your christian holiday first!" :rolleyes: However, since easter is a pagan holiday...then it makes since for Herod to wait until after easter. He didn't want to disturb *his* fun! Remember John the Baptist rebuked Herod for "his women", therefore, signifying to me that Herod more than likely did participate in the fertility celebration called easter.

    Also, in Acts 12:3 the KJBible says, " ...(Then were the days of unleavened bread.) If I'm not mistaken, these days of unleavened bread followed passover. So, in Acts 12:4, passover had already "passed over" ;) .

    Now, that's just my everyday thinking and that's all I have to say on this subject. So, I'll quietly bow out now and let the scholars talk! [​IMG]
     
  5. Abiyah

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    Actually, we don't eat leavening on Passover
    either. It is commemorated with matza, be-
    cause all the leaven has been put out of the
    house before Passover.
     
  6. HankD

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    But Farmer's Wife, the scholars have already talked. The KJV translators were all scholars.
    Almost everyone (about 70, it varied) had a string of degrees and pedigrees and most were renoun in the Church of England as clergy or laymen.

    HankD
     
  7. Daniel David

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    If you are a KJVO, you have to say that Easter is the correct word used. If you didn't, you would be honest with yourself and admit that the KJV is not really a perfect translation.

    If you embrace truth and reality, you can easily recognize that the correct translation is Passover. The "christian" day, Easter, is a catholic idea that sought to combine paganism with "christian" terms (like they always do).

    The fact that the KJV includes Easter instead of Passover, just shows its catholic bias. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. Wisdom Seeker

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    That's what I thought too, and got into a heated discussion with my Messianic Jewish friend, who brought it to light that this is not actually true. Easter is in fact translated to the word Passover. Jesus is considered by many to be the sacrificial lamb. And our passing over of the angel of death... I mean if you think about it... He did give us eternal life with his death and resurection by paying our sin debt. That got me thinking.

    And as far as opening a can of worms, that's a funny literation isnt' it? Well, I have a question, and want an answer, if that's not received well, so be it. But, I'm not going to refrain from opening up "a can of worms" as you put it, and remain ignorant, when there are so many people who might be able to shed some light on my question.

    Because as you may have guessed, I seek wisdom, not popularity.

    Wisdom Seeker
     
  9. Abiyah

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    Yes, I have seen that in you, in the short time I have
    been on this forum, and I like it. --Typical Californian! 8oD

    [ July 26, 2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  10. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Wisdom, could you please explain, though, your
    own first to sentences in the last post? I think I
    am misunderwstanding them. Tthank you.
     
  11. Wisdom Seeker

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    are these the first two sentences that you're questioning?
    He said that Easter and Passover are the same. And it is true that the words are the same but the interpretations of them are different depending on the religious background. He coming from a Jewish background thought I was joking when I said that the two are two different things. That's why I asked my question. Because his comments sounded valid, but threw my whole prior beliefs into question.

    So I'll reiterate my question:
    So, your answer apears to be that they are not the same, so they shouldn't be celebrated as being the same. Even though the word Easter means Passover. Do you see why I'm confused on the issue?

    Wisdom Seeker
     
  12. Wisdom Seeker

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    If your referring to my comment that I'm seeking wisdom not popularity, You've seen that in my posts?glad you like it, but, I fail to see what is so typically Californian about it.(It's a big state full of lots of diversity).. lol I have another one... Good thing my identity isn't based on people liking me. Oh yes and one I really like is a quote by Bill Cosby... "I don't know the road to sucess, but the road to failure is trying to please everyone else"

    Wisdom Seeker ;)
     
  13. Abiyah

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    Wow! I can see why you were confused, Wisdom!
    I am totally amazed at your Messiannic friend, too;
    usually, there is no question among Messianics
    about this.

    Your Messianic friend is wrong: the word, Easter,
    should never have been in any Bible text: it is, for
    one thing, anachronistic, because Easter did not
    exist at the writing of the Bible.

    I just grabbed my Greek Bible off the shelf so that
    I could read it directly. The Greek word is Pascha;
    translated into Hebrew, it is Pesach; translated
    into English, it is Passover.

    Easter is all about bunny rabbits, eggs, and a little
    about our Lord arising, in the eyes of the general
    world. To all those who observe Passover, it is
    about remembering how, when the people ap-
    plied the blood as commanded, the death angel
    spared them. No eggs, no bunnies. We Messi-
    anics only commemorate our Lord's death
    along with Pesach because we live after the
    fact--we know that this immediately preceded
    His giving His live for us as the Passover Lamb.
    This is, of course, also the time when we do
    what Christians call "Communion" or the
    "Lord's Supper."

    I am a bit surprised at your Messianic friend.
    Is s/he new to Messianism? Most (if not all)
    Messianics do not celebrate Easter.

    Regarding my comment about California, it is
    my beloved home-state. I was born in Eureka.
    Oh, just the people I knew there--people who
    enjoyed getting to the bottom line without all the
    fluff and the maybe stuff.

    [ July 26, 2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  14. Farmer's Wife

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    Hank, perhaps I chose the wrong word when I said 'scholars'. I was referring to people here on this board that had more knowledge about Jewish holidays and therefore, were more able to answer the rest of Wisdom's question. [​IMG]
     
  15. Wisdom Seeker

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    Thank you Abiyah,

    It doesn't help that that word is in my KJV Bible. I could have stood by my original understanding had it not appeared there.

    My Messianic friend lives in Israel. He was saying that Passover is the same as Easter, not that he celebrates Easter. He's a bit of a hot head and can be very impatient when he speaks to me. That's why I couldn't get a clear answer out of him...lol

    Eureka huh? My step-father was brought up there. We used to visit his mother when I was a teenager, that's way up north. Most people when referring to California mean the Hollywood crowd they see on T.V. and in the tabloids, and they can seem frivoulous, insincere, superficial and morally bankrupt. Thanks for explaining that that was not what you meant by typically Calfornian... ;)

    And as far as getting to the bottom line without all the fluff and maybe. Thank you, someone actually accused my of over-simplifying on another thread. So, I laughed to myself and said to myself "Isn't that what communication is for... to communicate... not to confound?" Sometimes it seems that people would rather use lots of words without saying anything, or get side-tracked at the words a person used. And that is such a waste of time.

    Wisdom Seeker :cool:
     
  16. HankD

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    Farmer's Wife...

    Oh, me sorry, mea culpa, mea culpa... [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  17. Farmer's Wife

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    That's quite alright, HankD, it was my fault for not being clear! [​IMG]

    Now, about this "mea culpa" thing....mea don't understand anything but English! ha,ha,ha ;) :D
     
  18. HankD

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    Farmer's Wife,

    I am a former Roman Catholic.
    The "mea culpa" is (or was) part of the mass.

    During the elevation of the Host (the communion wafer) I was instructed as a lad by the nuns to strike my breast three times and say "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" which is Latin (yes I go back that far to the Latin mass) for "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault".

    The saying has found its way into society and usually has the meaning of lamenting something one has done.

    HankD

    [ July 27, 2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  19. Wisdom Seeker

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    To Hank D and Farmers Wife,

    What do either of your many posts have to do with the topic?

    Wisdom Seeker
     
  20. Son of Coffee Man

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    Just some thoughts:

    This is not true. It is possible, I am not sure, that the ceremony of easter (which always falls in correlation with the vernal equinox) may have existed before passover. (hold down your gasps while I explain)

    You see the whole thing has its roots in the worship of a false god named Ishtar. I did some research (not alot) and it seems like this worship existed before the time of jewish captivity in Egypt, which would make it predate the passover proper.

    Now why is "easter" in the KJV of the Bible? One can only guess and here is mine based on my limited research. It appears that a group of people from the middle east may have migrated up into the European area and settled there back in the time of early germanic settling or much earlier. These people were at some point called "Istaeuones". I am not dead on with the spelling but it does seem to resemble ishtar, no? Furthermore, after this area was settled, the Catholic church came in and assimilated...um, I mean evangelized (holding back laughter) the area. Because of the way the Catholic church does things some of the cultural traditions were incorporated into Catholic worship (see prayer beads, confession booths, etc.). One of these practices, IN MY OPINION, was the connection to Ishtar with eggs, bunnies, etc. The connection was in regards to Ishtar being able to give new life and probably the churches in the area took the practice as their own but ascribed it to Christ, the giver of new life.

    Basically a pagan practice used in Christian worship. Now all of this was.....BEFORE....1611. That means when "easter" came around, it was the time of the passover (as held to by traditional scholarship) but was the merged (and now) pluralistic worship. This explanation seems to show why "easter" would be in the scriptures rather than "passover", but again this is based on limited research.

    SoCM
     

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