effectual call

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Eladar, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    If some reject God's word when they actually hear it, then how can spreading God's word be a more effectual call than someone who does God's will because it is written in one's heart?

    Neither the truth written one's heart nor actually hearing the word has 100% results.

    Why is one method more 'effectual' than another.

    By the way, where is this term in the Bible?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    I don't follow your question here. The effectual call is the work of the Holy Spirit on the elect to bring them to salvation. It is the call of Rom 8:29 that surely results in justification and glorification.

    The term effectual, like trinity or Holy Bible, is not found in Scripture. It is a term used by theologians to describe a truth found in Scripture. The question at issue is what the Bible teach about the call of God to salvation.
     
  3. Eladar

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    How can hearing the word (from men) be more effectual than having the word of God written in one's heart(from God)?

    As Paul said, it is those who do God's will that are his children, not those who hear God's will.
     
  4. William C

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    Not so. Eph. 3:7 and Gal. 2:8 for example use this term. The KJV is one of the only translation that use the word "effectual." Its the greek word, "energasen." And it is only used in regard to the apostles being called and should not be applied to the soteriology of mankind.
     
  5. Yelsew

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    Ask any salesman, the better the salesman the more important the principle, which is, the more doors you knock on the greater the sales.

    Some people call this the "numbers game" and others call it "the law of Averages".

    Church history reveals that the greatest periods of church growth are the result of massive "door to door", "person to person" evangelism. It is for the purpose of reaching the greatest number of persons that God Gave us His Word.

    God is not as concerned with "the elect", the ninety and nine, as He is with the "Whosoever wills", the one lost. That is why the vast majority of scripture is aimed at those who must choose and the elect need not choose (according to Calvin).
     
  6. russell55

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    Oh boy........
     
  7. Yelsew

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    We could take that further and repeat the oft stated Calvinist mantra that we are not capable of choosing, and have no free will....
     
  8. Frogman

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    Actually this is why God was able to warn us that the church would fall into apostasy, because He knew men would play this numbers game; men are gamblers, God is not. If we stick to God's Will which states that we proclaim the Gospel, the Spirit will make the effectual calling of 'whosoever' God wills, and this person will be born again and the Spirit will indwell him/her. This would eliminate much of the problems in the church and need for 'activities' which will not only draw numbers but keep them.

    Let's let the Spirit do the work wheresoever God sends it forth and we shall see our churches grow to such an extent, not only in numbers, but more importantly in Knowledge of what is the Will of God, and see less members who are 'nominal.'

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Frogman

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    If the Spirit doesn't sell for the churches, then nothing is sold.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. Yelsew

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    I suppose then that Matthew 28:18-20
    Is null and void because it is the building of Jesus' church.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    I was referring to its use in connection with the call to salvation which is what the topic is. The word energasen is not the word effectual but rather the word "working." The word "effectual" in an addition by the translators to clarify what they thought it meant.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    Is null and void because it is the building of Jesus' church. </font>[/QUOTE]No ... it's the way God builds the church. This has been said so many times. In Calvinism belief is not optional, it is assured. Yet you continue to repeat this stuff like it going to be true one day :( :(
     
  13. Frogman

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    Is null and void because it is the building of Jesus' church. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus also said without him we could do nothing.

    If a man is not to take upon himself the calling of God to enter into the ministry, how much more should a man not take upon himself the call to salvation.

    This is the underlying problem with 'free-willism' when a man chooses something for himself, he is free to 'unchoose' it and this will not work in harmony with the commission that is given to the church.

    All things, from salvation of the individual, to the building of the church is directed and accomplished through the Holy Spirit and by the Will of God.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. ScottEmerson

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    It is assured for believers, but it is not optional for those who aren't elect. They do not have a chance.
     
  15. Ray Berrian

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    Why does God speaking through Mark {16:16} demand of God's people to preach to ' . . . every creature?' Because salvation was intended for all to believe, so they will be saved. [John 3:16]

    And if a person thinks that the call is only "Effectual" for the elect then we must answer what God means when He says, 'So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth; it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall proper in the thing whereto I sent it.' [Isaiah 55:11] The power of the Gospel is potent enough to reach and touch any sinner once it has been heard and communicated.

    The Gospel once hear by any sinner makes them especially responsible before His awesome throne. No one hears the Gospel and does not notice the 'convincing' Power of the Holy Spirit. [John 16:8] 'And when He is come . . . ' My friends in Christ, He has come and He convicts of sin in the life of sinner as well as the people of God.
     
  16. Ray Berrian

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    Tutor,

    Good point. We need to walk as He walked.
     
  17. Ray Berrian

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    Brother Dallas,

    You said, ' . . . the Spirit will make the 'Effectual Calling' to whosoever God wills.' Your 'sacred cow' the Effectual Call is a contridiction in terms as connected with the Lord reaching out to all sinners. [Mark 9:37c,d,e; Luke 6:47; 9;48c; 12:8; 20:18 John 11:26; 12:48; Acts 2:21; 10:43 Romans 9:33; 10:11, 13; I John 5:1; Revelation 22:17] ' . . . and whosoever shall receive Me, receiveth not Me, but Him Who sends Me.' You might tailor your words better by saying, 'The Spirit will make the "Electual call" to those lost few who God mysteriously draws to Heaven.' The "Electual Call" is not the Gospel of Christ.

    The 'whosoever' Gospel has to be offered as a free gift, before it can be received. Those who receive {the elect} are eternally blessed with salvation and eternal life.
     
  18. Yelsew

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    It is assured for believers, but it is not optional for those who aren't elect. They do not have a chance. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Who are you to declare that the non elect have no chance? That is precisely the reason Jesus was lifted up on the cross, so that whomever believes in Him not only has a chance but is assured of salvation...elect of not!
     
  19. Yelsew

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    Is null and void because it is the building of Jesus' church. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus also said without him we could do nothing.

    If a man is not to take upon himself the calling of God to enter into the ministry, how much more should a man not take upon himself the call to salvation.

    This is the underlying problem with 'free-willism' when a man chooses something for himself, he is free to 'unchoose' it and this will not work in harmony with the commission that is given to the church.

    All things, from salvation of the individual, to the building of the church is directed and accomplished through the Holy Spirit and by the Will of God.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
    </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus said of the reports that others, not of the 12, were preaching the Gospel, (paraphrase) "Leave them be, if they be for us they cannot be against us."

    It is by the preaching of the Gospel message that men come to hear of Jesus and believe in him. It is by believing while grace prevails, that men are saved. Election has nothing to do with it! Paul clearly declares that the elect are the Israelites. Who are you to change that?
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    It is assured for believers, but it is not optional for those who aren't elect. They do not have a chance. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]It is assured for all who believe and that is the point. The non elect won't believe; they do not want to. Why do you keep ignoring that point?
     

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