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Featured Elect Israel and The Church the same !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, May 6, 2015.

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  1. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste Member
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    The simple fact is there is more to believers of all walks of life belonging to the House of Israel that realize it.

    BUT!

    There is a very important distinction.

    Physical Israel versus Spirit Israel.

    The two are not the same. Or Paul could not have said:

    Romans 9:6 (AV)
    6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    For they are not all (Spirit) Israel, which are of (Physical) Israel:

    Otherwise the sentence is a contradiction with itself.

    So the promises to the Physical Jew do not apply to the Spirit Jew. Believing in Jesus makes us a natural branch in the Olive tree if we are born Jewish or a grafted in one if we are born Gentile. But it does not entitle us to land in the Holy Land for example.

    IN the Abrahamic covenant, his heirs are said to be:

    • stars of the heavens (Spirit Israel)

    • sand by the seashore (Physical Israel).
    Revelation 13:1 (AV) 1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Isaiah 14:12–15 (AV)
    12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    Revelation 13:5–10 (AV)
    5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
     
    #81 JohnDBaptiste, Jul 31, 2015
  2. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste Member
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    The Physical Jews are the chosen / elect of this world.

    The Spirit Jews are the chosen / elect of heaven. Much better deal.

    Galatians 4:22–26 (AV)
    22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
    24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
     
    #82 JohnDBaptiste, Jul 31, 2015
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    That's not true, Rom 11:7 proves that, The Election /Chosen are distinct from the national physical Israel which were blinded! God doesn't blind His Elect, rather opens their eyes, unblinds them!
     
    #83 savedbymercy, Aug 2, 2015
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So what does a 'Spirit Jew' look like today?
     
    #84 Martin Marprelate, Aug 2, 2015
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would say that to the Apostle paul, Spiritual isreal refers to those Jews who were part of the chosen remnant to receive Jesus from all generations, and that when the jew of physiccal birth received Yeshua and thus became hiers to Abraham, they were "spiritual Isreal"

    There will always be jews who are lost in their sins, who deny jesus is messiah, and those who do are spiritual isreal...
     
    #85 Yeshua1, Aug 3, 2015
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    All Promises Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

    I believe the following Scripture teach that all promises to Abraham and subsequently to his chosen descendants were fulfilled in Jesus Christ and thus received by HIS Bride, the Church, the redeemed of all time. Isaac Watts says basically the same contrary to what some in the dispensational camp denied! {Post #10}

    Galatians 3:16-29
    16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    20. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
    #86 OldRegular, Aug 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2015
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    #87 Martin Marprelate, Aug 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2015
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    A Spiritual Jew can be either a Jew or Gentile!
     
    #88 savedbymercy, Aug 9, 2015
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Mother of us all !

    Gal 4:26

    But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    Believe it or not, this applies to the mostly Gentile Church, for Paul is drawing here from a OT Prophecy out of Isa 54:1-3

    Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. Cp

    Gal 4:26-27

    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

    The Church under the NT, the Bride of Christ shall have more children than under the OT, this will be due to an large influx or A flowing in of Gentiles being converted by the Gospel, and so fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant promise of Gen 17:5

    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    And so the spiritual children of Abraham [people of faith] under the New Covenant, among the Gentiles, have in type Sarah as their Mother, who typifies the heavenly Jerusalem in contrast to the earthly jerusalem under the OC ! Just as Abraham is the Father of us all [The Spiritual seed of both jews and gentiles Rom 4:16], his Wife Sarah, typifying the Heavenly Jerusalem is the Mother of us all Gal 4:26

    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
     
    #89 savedbymercy, Aug 24, 2015
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Israel after the flesh are not the children of God !

    Rom 9:6-8

    6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    If we read scripture with an honest heart, it is seen that there are Two Israels, and not one in this passage and particularly in Vs 6, which makes the distinction between the Two Israels, one being Israel from Vs 8 Abraham's natural descendants aafter the flesh, and Israels spiritual descendants according to God's Promise, typified by Isaac Abrahams child of promise Vs 7 !

    Now this Israel which constitute Abrahams children after the flesh, they are not the children of God or Promise, they are liken Ishmaels as compared to Isaac !

    They are the same ones Paul writes of here as Israel after the flesh 1 Cor 10:18

    18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

    And so with logical inference [ The act of reasoning from factual knowledge or evidence] guided by the principles of scripture, then we can conclude that there is an Israel after the Spirit, which is the Israel of God Paul points out here Gal 6:15-16

    15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

    16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

    And also the principle is set forth of Two Israels in the analogy of Isaac and Ishmael where it says Gal 4:29

    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

    Where in this context National Israel after the flesh is typfied by Ishmael and his mother hagar, and Israel after the Spirit is typified by Isaac[The Heir and child of promise] and his Mother Sarah.

    This Truth of Two Israels had been a Mystery hidden in Christ, but to be disclosed in NT Times at the coming of the Spirit of Promise from Christ !

    So it is with natural israel according to the flesh, as it was with ishmael and his mother, as saith the Words of Sarah Gal 4:30

    30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

    From Gen 21:10

    Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.631
     
    #90 savedbymercy, Sep 7, 2015
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    All Israel shall be saved in the Lord !

    Isa 45:17

    17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    God never promised to save all mankind, but only a special portion of it, which portion is called Israel. Salvation/Eternal Life is premised upon a Promise Titus 1:1-2

    Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    2 Tim 2:10

    Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation[which is promised] which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

    Salvation is based upon God's Promise and not the freewill of man, and thats why we have the scripture Isa 45:17, as well as Acts 13:23

    23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    Which also affirms that Salvation in the Lord, that God has Promised is to a specific people, a remnant of mankind, So Paul states it clear, who did God raise Jesus, according to Promise a Saviour unto ?

    Does it read the whole world without exception ? NO, it reads unto Israel, which are the Elect of God, which are His People ! See Ps 78:71;135:12;148:14;Lk 1:68 !

    Paul understanding Gods Promise to save all Israel and the Mystery regarding it, writes Rom 11:25-26

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    But what does it mean by All Israel here ? It does not mean all Israel as a physical nation, or an ethnic people, that thought is nullified , invalidated by what he wrote earlier in Chapter 9 of Romans here Rom 9:27

    27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel[physical descendants] be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

    Only a remnant out of all the physical descendants of Israel, or Abrahams children according to the flesh, shall be saved, which invalidates any chance of all of them without exception ever being saved !

    But the All here includes the Mystery, it includes a calling out of the Gentiles to complete the Promise of " All Israel shall be saved" which is Pauls point in Rom 11:25-26, by bringing in the fulness of the Elect Gentiles, in that manner, all Israel shall be saved, in line with Gods Promise Isa 45:17

    17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.636
     
    #91 savedbymercy, Sep 8, 2015
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    They make the Perfect Church !

    The OT Church [Believers in Christ Pre death] and the NT Church [ Believers in Christ post death] comprise, make up, constitute up the completed Church, the Body of Christ. The OT Church of Believers were not to be made Perfect /Complete apart from the addition of the NT or Covenant Church of Believers as Per Heb 11:40

    40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they[OT Believers] without us[NT Believers] should not be made perfect.

    The Two Companies together make the Perfect Man Eph 4:13

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    See, the Fulness of Christ is made up of Believers in Him from all time, also its the same as that New Man Eph 2:15

    15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain[OT Believers and NT Believers] one new man, so making peace;639
     
    #92 savedbymercy, Sep 12, 2015
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