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Elect, Non-elect, and the third group

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by swaimj, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Ultimately, at the judgement, there are only two groups: elect and non-elect. The elect will go into eternal life and the non-elect into damnation. Surely everyone on the BB agrees with this.

    But, what do we do about those occasions, particularly in the book of Acts, when the gospel is preached and the response reveals THREE groups. "Some believed, some scoffed, and some said "we will hear you again on this matter". In this scenario, who is elect and who is not?
     
    #1 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Those who believed, or will believe in the future, are elect. Everyone else is not.

    Still only two groups.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #2 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2008
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The more I'm studying this, the more I am leaning towards the "elect" being those who do not reject the truth, albeit not saved yet. It is those who accept the truth, and do not reject it the Gospel call goes out to and they accept Christ. In this instance, those who haven't yet become Christ followers could fall into either group, as I believe God does indeed work within time in a way we cannot fathom, while not being limited to time.
     
    #3 webdog, Oct 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2008
  4. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    "believed" "scoffed", and "will consider" is three, not two. I don't see how you can deny this.
     
    #4 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    One of the two thieves on a cross next to Jesus scoffed as did the other thief.But later the one was in Heaven that same day.He was elect from eternity.

    I think your idea of three groups is rather unique.But in this case it's not a good thing.One has to stick with the Bible.

    At the Final Judgment there will be only two groups -- the sheep and the goats.The elect and the reprobate.The saved and the lost.The objects of mercy and the vessels of destruction.

    There is no middle ground here.
     
    #5 Rippon, Oct 2, 2008
  6. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    I do not deny that, at the final judgement, there will only be elect and non-elect. However, it is a mistake to view people in those categories now within the boundaries of time. The gospel is for all men and it is to be preached to all men. People in time respond in the three ways spoken of in Acts. To those who believe, we are to disciple them, to those who reject, we are to pray for their salvation and seek other opportunities to witness to them, and to those who want to consider later, we are to seek another opportunity for them. Within the boundaries of time there are three groups and we are to be seeking either to evangelize men or disciple them. Dividing men into elect and non-elect within the boundaries of time is playing God and making a determination about men that we are not equipped to make.
     
    #6 swaimj, Oct 2, 2008
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Of course we are to teach and preach the Gospel to all people without distinction.But that is a given.I don't see what that has to do with this conversation.

    We don't make the determination of who the elect and non-elect are.We are not "playing God" as you mysteriously said.People still fall into the two categories on earth.
     
    #7 Rippon, Oct 2, 2008
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Straw man. Only two groups. Elect (whether they have been regenerated yet or not is up to God's perfect timing and will) and non-elect.

    I was elect from the foundation of the world. I wasn't regenerated until March 17, 1957. I didn't move from the "non-elect" to the "elect" category at that time.

    I was ALWAYS a sheep, never a goat. God's choice (certainly nothing in me). I was an unregenerate sheep, lost as the day is long, but still a sheep. I was a coin, lost in the dirt of the world, but still a valuable coin. I was a son, though prodigal in my wallowing pig-sty life, but still a son.

    Luke 15 is a wonderful chapter of encouragement to God's elect.
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Oct 2, 2008
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I was travelling on a bus one night. The driver, a girlfirend and I were the only ones on the bus. The two of us believed we were saved, and we assumed the bus driver was not. In short order the bus driver asked where we had been. We had been to hear Handel's Messiah. Then our assunption fell apart. The bus driver said he believed, but had fallen away for a number of years.

    We cannot judge anyone, including those who claim a relationship with Christ. We can only testify to what has been declared by each person, either in word or deed.

    To speak of the elect and the reprobate, outside biblical stories, we can only examine the theological results.

    As Spurgeon reportedly prayed, "Lord, save the elect, and elect some more." Our duty is to live for Him and to preach the gospel.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #9 Jim1999, Oct 2, 2008
  10. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Agreed. Ultimately, there are only two groups--elect and non-elect. But those are known only to God. We do not minister under a frame-work of elect and non-elect for we minister not knowing the condition of the heart. With some the fruit in their life is so great that we stand all but certain that they are elect; with others we are all but certain that they are not. With the vast majority we are not certain of anything so we minister grace, faith, and hope believing that with God all things are possible.
     
    #10 swaimj, Oct 3, 2008
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Since Christ chose to die for the whole world. The whole world has been chosen for Salvation.
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    In order for anyone or the ("Whosoevers") to be saved. Christ had to die for the whole world.

    Calvinism would have us all believe we can't believe with out regeneration because of total depravity. Even though the concept of such is not in scripture. The only thing that keeps man from being saved is his own rebellion. The reason a man isn't saved is because the man isn't willing to accept the truth of the gospel.
    MB
     
    #11 MB, Oct 3, 2008
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Amen, bro. God selected men for His own, but He also selected the means of proclaiming the Word of God, preaching repentance from dead works and faith in the living God.

    The error when a calvinistic (biblical) theology is taken too far is to ignore the command to preach to ALL, to minister to EVERY ONE. God will work in the hearts of His elect, but you and I might never know what God is doing internally in someone else.

    So we obediently follow Christ's command and let HIM sort out who is elect!!
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Oct 3, 2008
  13. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    There you go!
     
    #13 swaimj, Oct 3, 2008
  14. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    We don't know what God is doing internally, but externally, we observe three groups--those who believe, those who reject, and those who "thinkabout it". That is what Luke observed in the people of whom he wrote in the book of Acts. My point is that our orientation in the midst of ministry is not to think "elect--non-elect", but think "yes-no-maybe". And when thinking this way, stay after people rather than passively saying "it's in God's hands, not mine".
     
    #14 swaimj, Oct 3, 2008
  15. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    What minister do you know who has given up on anyone....... calvinist or non calvinist alike?
     
    #15 reformedbeliever, Oct 3, 2008
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    And again, Amen. We don't know who the elect are, so we share Law and Gospel (repentance and faith) with them all.

    And after nearly 40 years in full-time ministry, it is amazing to see God's working. People I thought would NEVER respond and turn their heart to God all of a sudden have "the light come on".

    And others, who seem "close", never have that intimate Spirit wooing and never change and go to the grave unregenerate.
     
    #16 Dr. Bob, Oct 3, 2008
  17. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    RB, in my sinfulness, I have been guilty of giving up on people.
     
    #17 swaimj, Oct 3, 2008
  18. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    RB, my point is, how do we view people? I think thinking in terms of "elect--non-elect" is a faulty paradigm because we do not know who is elect or not. The proper paradigm for evangelism is the one given in Acts which includes three types of people, not two. From the human perspective, three types are what we see. Only God can see in terms of elect--non-elect because only he knows who they are.
     
    #18 swaimj, Oct 3, 2008
  19. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    When I look at my brother or sister in Christ.... elect is the last thing I would think of calling them... although they are. Seems to be I call most of them brother or by their name. :)
    The way I look at it is this. God has elected His sheep.... but I'll go toe to toe with Him for the rest! That is why I have not been spending much time on here.... :)
    Thanks Brother. Notice I didn't say "thanks elect person." :)
     
    #19 reformedbeliever, Oct 3, 2008
  20. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Oh, then you agree with what I am saying. Elect and non-elect is not the proper frame with which to view men. And yet you cannot bring yourself to actually say that you agree with me. Very strange.
     
    #20 swaimj, Oct 11, 2008
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