Elected to be lost

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by saturneptune, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Until I met this person, this never occurred to me, and maybe it is not the way I am thinking of it. This person has a head knowledge of election and Calvinism. He has absolutely no interest in spiritual things, God, the Gospel or church, and goes about his merry way.

    It is almost like he believes he is not one of the elect, and is not worried about it. My question is, is it possible for a non-elect person to know he is not going to be saved, actually know it, and just live life without concern?
     
  2. LeBuick

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    I love your topic. Never thought of it this way but this would be true.

    If the elect is elect by their faith in Christ then yes, anyone without faith in Christ would know they are not part of the elect. Most, especially athiest, don't care and will live life with little or no concern.
     
  3. npetreley

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    If this person is for real (not meaning you made him up, but in the other sense), then it's obviously possible.

    To quote "Oxnard Montalvo" from The Angry Beavers, "Remember, Toluca, anything is possible... if it happens."
     
  4. Bro. Williams

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    Boy, what a bummer that would be. To know that God had made you and formed you without any notion of saving you. To know that God created you for the purpose of going to hell without even having the chance of being drawn to Him.

    bummer.
     
  5. Brother Bob

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    On top of all that you would have been "elected" or chosen to burn forever. Yikes................
     
  6. npetreley

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    It's not a bummer to this person. He supposedly doesn't care. That's the only thing that makes the story believable, and even then I don't really buy it. It isn't even remotely possible to know you are NOT among the elect and feel bad about not having a "chance" (chance has nothing to do with it). Anyone who wants Jesus can and WILL have Him. No exceptions. They ARE the elect.
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Puts a new view on being on fire for the Lord

    I would that YOU be hot...
     
    #7 standingfirminChrist, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2007
  8. larryjf

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    My opinion is that they can only know that they are currently lost, not what God's secret decree is for them.
     
  9. npetreley

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    Very good point.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    If I remember correctly, and if the story is true, Voltaire knew who Christ was, and that he was in constant war with Him. Head knowledge. No fear of God.
     
  11. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    I suspect the problem here is equating academic understanding as spiritual phenomenon. It is quite possible and and quite common for unsaved people to understand Bible doctrine and sectarian doctrines of Christians (sectarian referring of course to the sect known as Calvinists) without spiritual enlightenment.

    Spiritual enlightenment and academic understanding are not synonymous.

    But to answer your question, the BIBLE clearly states that we do NOT know what what tomorrow will bring. So no a person does not KNOW the future and whether they will trust Christ as Savior or NOT.

    “Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth” (Prov. 27:1).
     
  12. JustChristian

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    Jesus said that we could know our eternal destination as follows:

    Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    Jhn 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
     
  13. Bro. Williams

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    But it will be a "bummer" on judgment day. And if calvinism is true, the story will be true for countless millions on judgment day.
     
  14. larryjf

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    Sorry for posting in this Baptist-only thread.
    I have been reading the board through rss feed and didn't realize until just now a moderator told me on another thread.

    i will cease and desist.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    you sure you don't want to turn Baptist so you can stay ? I like your posts. they have the sound of being thought out.:wavey:
     
  16. saturneptune

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    The person is real. I have no idea if this guy is representing his feelings truthfully or not. That is why I asked the question.
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    No, brother, I wasn't referring to your story. I meant the story about Voltaire.
    It is said that on his deathbed, he agonized: Carpenter, thou hast won. I go facing a black eternity !!

    Sorry for the confusion.
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    I doubt if anyone can know of their election until they are saved.

    I doubt if anyone, even one like saturneptune's friend, can categorically know that they will never repent and trust Christ. No one is beyond the reach of the work of the Holy Spirit, who can change a heart in an instant--like Saul of Tarsus.

    Desiring God and desiring to repent and trust in Jesus are totally different from wanting to be saved because you want to escape punishment for sin.

    saturn's friend sounds as if, at this point, he wants none of the above.
     
  19. npetreley

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    It'll be a bummer for the countless millions who aren't saved, whether calvinism is true or not. So what's your point?
     
  20. Steven2006

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    "Head knowledge" is one thing, but I doubt he truly believes Jesus is really God the Son, and that he really died on the cross and rose from the dead. It is my experience that people who act like you described, don't really believe these things as truth. So they really don't have a real true sense of their having to pay for their sins. They might understand what is taught, but don't believe the truth of the Gospel message.
     

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