Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    We all, know it was a cry from Christ on the cross...

    It meant, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    Here is my question...

    Did God forsake him?

    OR was God there, but because of sin, Jesus felt like God forsook him.

    What scripture do we have to show that God actually turned his back on Jesus?
     
  2. TaterTot

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    I have thought about this lately as well.

    No, God did not forsake Jesus. Jesus surely felt forsaken, but he was quoting scripture on the cross (Psalm 22)

    Turning His back would go against the very nature of God. I have always been told that God cannot look upon sin. Thats why He turned away. And that at that moment was when Jesus paid for the sin of the world. But that cant be true. That diminishes the rest of his suffering. And if God cant look upon sin, then surely we have no hope.
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    If God did not forsake Christ for just that time, then Christ lied on the cross. He was telling the world that He was forsaken at that time.

    It would make no sense whatsoever for Him to quote that verse from the cross if it did not apply to Him.
     
  4. Linda64

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    God the Father turned away from the Son when He was made sin for fallen humanity:

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Sin separates us from God...therefore when Jesus Christ became "sin for us" God the Father forsook the Son.

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

    Isaiah 59:2
    But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    When God comes face to face with sin, His wrath is poured out. That is why the broken law of God had to be covered by the Mercy Seat in the Ark of the Covenant. The Mercy Seat, upon which the blood of the sacrifice was sprinkled each year, was a buffer between the broken law of God and the justice of God.

    In I Samuel 6:19, we read where God slew 50,070 men because they looked into the Ark. They came face-to-face with the broken law of God without the buffer of the blood-sprinkled Mercy Seat. As a result, they had to face the wrath and justice of God.

    When Jesus uttered the words, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me," He was personally experiencing the manifestation of God's hatred of sin. He was now face-to-face with the wrath and justice of God toward the sins of all mankind. Jesus was suffering that which should have been mine and yours, include being forsaken in our stead. Because He was forsaken, we need not be.
     
  6. tinytim

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    Not necessarily.... Jesus could have FELT like God the father had turned his back on him... it would have been real to Jesus.. So Jesus would not have been lying, but asking an honest question...

    Think about it, in all eternity, Jesus had never felt the effects of sin... He lost his innocence on the cross that day.. .he finally felt sin... not his of course, but mine.. and yours, and everyone elses...

    Sin would have felt so dirty, so, what's the word I'm looking for... you know... just horrible to him.

    I am not convinced either way... I would love to find a verse that said that God did forsake him.. Jesus asked a question.. it wasn't a statement.

    Did Paul, or any of the other NT writers address this?

    Thanks Linda for those verses.. the one in ISaiah seems to fit... but I am still not convinced that God actually forsook Himself... How can God be seperated from Himself?
     
  7. tinytim

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    This is what I am slowly coming to realize, I think..
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    Go back and study
     
  9. tinytim

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    So, the word forsaken means to experience God's wrath.. that makes sense... For Jesus would have surely felt God's wrath on the cross.. it would have been more horrible than the nails, thorns, spear, etc...

    Here is what I am getting at..
    I have always heard that God turned his back on jesus...
    That he turned away...
    That he cannot look on sin....

    Where are the scriptures to show that?
    He had to loook on Jesus bearing our sin to pour out his wrath on him...
    And that wrath would have surely felt like seperation from the Father...

    But were they ever really seperated, and where is the scripture showing that God the Father turned his head?
     
  10. tinytim

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    I have been.. That is why I am asking you all for some verses to show me one way or the other... :wavey:

    I am sure others, like tatertot have wondered about this also...

    Was he seperated from the Father or did he just feel seperation?
     
  11. tinytim

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    Here I am hijacking my own thread, but I have never had it explained as a buffer before... I LOVE IT!!! That makes a lot of sense.
     
  12. TaterTot

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    None of the verses shown yet have proven that God forsook His Son. Because He didnt. In His humanity, he felt alone, and then Christ was quoting scripture. Read all of Psalm 22.

    24 For he has not despised or disdained
    the suffering of the afflicted one;
    he has not hidden his face from him
    but has listened to his cry for help.

    And I love this part:

    30 Posterity will serve him;
    future generations will be told about the Lord.

    31 They will proclaim his righteousness
    to a people yet unborn—
    for he has done it.
     
  13. tinytim

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    Wow, that is good stufF!!! That'll preach!
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

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    I do not believe He was literally separated from the Father. When we allow sin to reign in our lives, we have a difficult time sensing the presence of God. Jesus was bearing the sins of the whole world. On the cross, He bore our sin without a sense of the Father's presence. The very words He spoke, "My God, My God..." indicated that the relationship was intact. Even so, Jesus was regarded by the Father, and regarded Himself, as sin even though He knew no sin.
     
  15. tinytim

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    That makes sense, and that along with the verses Tatertot posted from Psalm 22, which clearly says that, "neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard." Leads me to believe exactly like you do on this...

    The sin he bore kept him from sensing the presence of God... Just the way it does when we are caught up into sin...

    God has promised not to forsake us, and we sin...
    We drag God into our sin.. and he tugs on us, pulling us out of it... But he never leaves us in it.

    Thanks you all for your guidance.



     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    Yea, hath God said...?

    He was forsaken for that moment that Jesus cried out, 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani.'

    Why do people have such a hard time believing God's Word?

    Jesus knew He had been forsaken for that moment in time.

    Yea, hath God said?
     
  17. tinytim

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    You should make that your signature, you use it a lot, it would keep you from typing it so much...

    OK, folks, here is the part that we get slammed, put down, and belittled by SFIC and LInda for not interpreting scripture the same way they do...

    Go ahead SFIC, let us have it,, tell us how we don't beleive God's word, and how we are not as good a Christian as you and your wife are....

    Go ahead, get it out of your system, so we can have an intelligent debate, after you move on...

    Go ahead, you know you want to tell me how worthless I am... And how holy you are...

    BTW, I know I am worthless.. I know that if it wasn't for the Blood of Jesus, and the Grace of God, I would never see Heaven, but I know you like pointing it out, so go ahead, get it over with.
     
  18. TaterTot

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    What about what I posted was not said by God? (yea hath He said...) It was direct quoting from His word. Jesus quoted it too.

    Ponder on it and ask God to show you if maybe you may have misunderstood something in the past.
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

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    Notice Jesus only quoted verse 1 of Psalm 22? Why not quote 23 and 24 too?

    Jesus, for that moment, was forsaken. And because He was forsaken (v.1) for that brief amount of time, God's people were not forsaken (v.23,24). They are the afflicted

    Psalms 22:23-24 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

    Psalms 34:6 This poor man cried, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles.

    God turned His back on His Son and in doing so, we have gained access to Him.
     
  20. Linda64

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    Thanks Tim...I post one post and you said thanks for the verses....then you jump on my case and accuse me of something I haven't done in this thread....

    Nice Christian love.
     

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