Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

Your hermeneutics are just stunning.

In reply to the OP. You gave me something to think about. In my perspective, Christ in His human nature experienced a separation from the Father, but His divine nature no. Really though this is one of those things that each person must come to their own conclusion on and not stand in judgement of another.

 

Does Scripture allow us to dichotomize Jesus in His incarnational distinctive?

 

The Lord Jesus Christ referred to the Cross as a "cup"

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Here is what I believe to be an excellent explanation of "the cup" by Evangelist Al Lacy:

You can't get any more concrete than that.

I don't understand what you mean when you say Jesus "sensed" separation...but looking up all this information about "cup" and studying it out, it is my belief that when Jesus said "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me"---that is exactly what he meant. His Father forsook His Son when He became "sin for us" on the cross of Calvary.

 

We don't have any trouble agreeing that Jesus was fully God and fully man, so I think we need to apply that to when Jesus cries out "why have You forsaken me?". If the Father had forsaken Jesus as God, then for a time Jesus ceased to be God. But if the Father forsook Jesus the man, then it all makes sense. At least to me. :laugh:

 

When Jesus says Me, Shouldn't we understand that this is referring to who Jesus was, the God-man?

Why are we compelled to divide the God-man?




***edited for misspelling.

 

I believe it was Dr. John Phillips who said---commenting on the passage in question

"Imagine that??? God forsakeing God!!"

We cannot come "to grips" with this passage---because---its the finite minde of man probeing the mind of the infinite God!!!

However---to become rich in Godly knowledge and wisdom--demands that we study the passage!!!

Imagine that??? God forsakeing God!!!! As part of redemption of fallen man!!!

Somebody give praise and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ----He was "man" enough and "God" enough both at the very same time ---- to endure being forsaken!!!!

 

Good question. I'm not sure that He can be divided. But as a man, Jesus got tired, hungry and thirsty, but can God be those things? As a man, He was tempted, but can God be tempted? Quite a mystery to me.

 

Amen. Once again I am reminded of the greatness of God, which I can never understand.

 

I often tell the people that I pastor----that I am thankful that I'm not God---because I would have found a way to "blow" the whole redemption plan!!!!

Nobody else but God in the flesh could have endured being forsaken!!!!

 

I love this ambiguity of Dr. Philips, and I think we should leave it at that.

Or,

We might find ourselves falling into one of those heresies the church condemned in the 4th and 5th centuries.

 

If I understand your question correctly I would say to a degree yes. Its clear that Christ did things, understood things, and experienced things in His humanity that He did not in His divinity. One nature does some things that the other nature does not do.

An example would be that in Christ´s humanity he ascended into heaven and is no longer in the world, but from a divine perspective He is everywhere present.

Perhaps it was an experience of His humanity when he cried that He was forsaken.

 

Yes, and I am willing to live with this mystery as well (Deut 29:29).

 

You may be correct, but I'm only trying to work with what Scripture says. Jesus says He was forsaken by the Father.

Now we can try to extricate the God from the God-man, but I'm not too sure that it is up to us to do such.

 

I agree, but it is one way that we try to understand the difficulty of this passage. At best all we think in regards to this is speculation and opinion. If we concentrate to much on how Christ was forsaken we miss the profound significance of the passage in its entirety: Christ drinking the cup of God´s wrath dry for every person who will believe.

 

I agree. This is but one of many scriptures that we must take on faith even though we cannot fully understand it.

 

Amen, brother. :thumbs:

Paul agrees with you:

"Now everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us" (2 Cor 5:18, 19, HCSB).

 

Powerful passage of Scripture you quoted! Peter agrees with Paul: "For Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh... (1Peter 3:18)

 

I have no desire to derail this thread, but this heresy cannot go without refutation. The Word of God clearly teaches that Jesus bore the weight of the sins of the whole world, not just the elect. I am surprised that my Bible-believing brothers and sisters here let this one go unnoticed.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (KJV)

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (KJV)

 

I would have said something, Bro. But have already been admonished as being always right and never wrong.

Was told to let up on the heat a little.

Funny, if the heat is not applied in this life, some may have to face a much hotter heat in the life to come.

 

I often wonder how you are going to get along with people in Heaven. **Insult removed**