Featured Ellen G. White False Prophecies

Bottom line about Ellen White...

She denies Jesus of the Bible, the Gospel of the Bible, contridicts Paul, so fale prophetess period!

 

Calvinists say that about Arminians all the time in their name-calling stage.

Simply resorting to sweeping statements of condemnation proves nothing.

But if this is where you switch to a focus on the doctrinal question - I think you would be well advised to make that case because it should be easier to do.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Here is what God says about the mechanism of prophecy -


7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.

9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you.

===================================

So then God says (by your own quote of the text ) "IF at ANY TIME".

And also "IF at another Time"

For both blessings and curses - the same principle applies.

What the text does NOT say is "IF I say I am bringing disaster UNLESS you repent - only then is it conditional". The text says this condition applies simply because GOD is speaking it.

What the text does not say is "IF I say I will build up -- but then add an IF statement about persevering in doing well - then ONLY in that case is my promise conditional". The text says this condition applies simply because GOD is speaking it.

And this is why Jonah is not a false prophet by Bible standards - by your own quote of it.

He had not "UNLESS" in his message.

Hint: Jonah had no "UNLESS you repent" in his message.

But since his message came from God - Jeremiah 18 applies to it.

Obviously.

Your work is to "imagine" that in some cases either God is wrong about Jeremiah 18 or there is an imaginary way out of Jeremiah 18 for the special case of predicting blessing or curse.

My work is to remain steadfast in holding that Jeremiah 18 is in fact true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You posted that in response to Jeremiah 18.

Interesting - are you claiming that Jeremiah 18 is my "emphasis on the Torah"??

In the true spirit of Exegesis - I give both of them weight.

Moses is not a false prophet. But Moses did not go to Israel in Egypt saying "I have an idea - lets go wander in the desert for 40 years then die before reaching the land of Canaan".

I think we both agree to that point.

Here now is "Torah". Let us see if your case is made here for thinking that Jeremiah 18 is "Getting out of " the teaching given to Moses.

Moses' message.

Ex 3
16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt; 17 and I have said I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, to a land flowing with milk and honey.”’ 18 Then they will heed your voice; and you shall come, you and the elders of Israel, to the king of Egypt; and you shall say to him, ‘The Lord God of the Hebrews has met with us; and now, please, let us go three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.’

Exodus 4

29 Then Moses and Aaron went and gathered together all the elders of the children of Israel. 30 And Aaron spoke all the words which the Lord had spoken to Moses. Then he did the signs in the sight of the people. 31 So the people believed; and when they heard that the Lord had visited the children of Israel and that He had looked on their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshiped.


Here is a classic case of Jeremiah 18 - where God does not say "IF you persevere in obedience THEN this is what will happen - but if not you will simply die in the wilderness after 40 years of wandering".

Yes - the Jeremiah 18 principle applies EVEN to Moses and so Moses himself - is not a false prophet.

Jeremiah 18 is not a test - it is a definition of how prophetic messages work - either for blessings or for curses.

They worked that way before Jeremiah 18 and afterwards.

You have failed to show that Jeremiah 18 says the prophet must not rely on Jeremiah 18 - but must state the conditions or they are a false prophet.

You have failed to show Jonah "spelling out the conditions".

You have failed to who Moses' message in Exodus 3 "spelling out the conditions".

In essence you argue that we should not trust the way that the Bible says prophecy works - we should instead wrench Deut 18 to such an extreme point that the rules you then make up - turn Moses and Jonah into false prophets. But of course it is all worth - if it gains the result of claiming that Ellen White is also a false prophet.

Why you are appealing for such an extreme is hard to fathom.

in Christ,

Indeed you accept both Jonah and Moses as examples of giving conditional prophecy while admitting that NO CONDITION appears in their prophecy other than the implied one of Jeremiah 18.

This is just not that hard to get.

If you are not able to show any conditions for Ex 3 or for Jonah's prophecy - and yet claim they are "conditional anyway" then you have already conceded the point.

What part of this is hard to get.

You conclusion is nonsense. You argue that if the answer is that the prophecies were conditional just like Moses and Jonah making conditional prophecies WITHOUT stating the conditions - then the last thing I should do is to point to Jeremiah 18 stating that this principle applies to all prophecies that address blessing and curses.

Have you really thought that one through?

Is this suppose to be the hard part??

in Christ,

Bob

 

Here's what God says about EGW, but BR and her other followers don't care.

in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

The last sentence is a clear statement of BR's condition.

 

You still need to show how you know that this applies to EGW specifically.

Or do you offer the same defense for every person who makes a prediction of the future that does not come true as long as they claim that they were told in a vision from God?

 

In 1Cor 14 "Each one has a revelation" not "just the men" as you seem to imagine.

in the NT Anna is a prophet - so also Phillip's daughters.

In 1Cor 12 the gifts of the Holy Spirit are promised to the church - "not just men" as some seem to imagine.

In Joel 2 "your sons AND your daughters shall see visions - not "just the men" as some seem to imagine.

In the book of 2 Chronicles - Hulda is the last woman prophet is consulted for the Word of God - by Josiah before wicked kings arise in Judah and then Judah is taken into captivity.

In Numbers 12 - both Aaron and Miriam are prophets before the Lord.

So if the claim is that the Bible does not allow women to see visions, or have the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy - then that wild claim is "seen" to not hold up to the test of scripture.

And I am all about sola-scriptura testing - not sola-making-stuff-up testing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Not every statement claimed to come from a vision is in regard to a future blessing or curse. But in the special case that this is the content of the vision or inspired dream from God - then the Jeremiah 18 principle applies.

Obviously.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Not so obviously - or you would actually answer the question.

Take the "food for worms" vision and walk us through it and show us how you know that specific prophesy is a conditional prophesy and not a false prophesy.

 

canon CLOSED f, NO more additional revealtions have come since John passed away!

Acts transistional book, HS does NOT operate in same fashion today, and can you answer why you see Ellen white as being a real prophetess, as she denied the true gospel of jesus, as proclaimed by paul?

 

hint - that is not a Bible text it is you "quoting you".

1. Yes the Canon in closed.

2. NO it was NEVER true that every prophet known - wrote something in the Canon of scripture. Agabus, Anna, Philips daughters, all those in 1Cor 14 the list is endless in the NT alone.

3. No text in all of scripture says "no revelations after John"

John himself says in 1John 4 that the TEST of a prophet is according to DOCTRINE - not "is their name John" - as so many have imagined.

Easy - She did not do that.

You are simply "quoting you again".

Not sure why you keep thinking that trick will work. But you have free will - you can keep trying it out as often as you like.

in Christ,

Bob

 

In 1Cor 14 "Each one has a revelation" not "just the men" as you seem to imagine.

in the NT Anna is a prophet - so also Phillip's daughters.

In 1Cor 12 the gifts of the Holy Spirit are promised to the church - "not just men" as some seem to imagine.

In Joel 2 "your sons AND your daughters shall see visions - not "just the men" as some seem to imagine.

In the book of 2 Chronicles - Hulda is the last woman prophet is consulted for the Word of God - by Josiah before wicked kings arise in Judah and then Judah is taken into captivity.

In Numbers 12 - both Aaron and Miriam are prophets before the Lord.

So if the claim is that the Bible does not allow women to see visions, or have the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy - then that wild claim is "seen" to not hold up to the test of scripture.

And I am all about sola-scriptura testing - not sola-making-stuff-up testing.


And "obviously" in Act 17:11 - we have the "sola scriptura" principle in the NT. Pretty silly then to argue that we need to toss out the book of Acts because we should not be instructed about the church from that book.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You admit that the canon of revealtion closed/ceased from God after Apostle John passed, yet you also say Ellen White receive additional revelations from God to teach/instruct us, even though God said that he will NOT do anything extra until Second Coming of Christ?

 

Indeed I do.

I also admit that Anna a prophet who served in the temple at the time of Christ writes no book in the canon.

That also holds for prophets like Philip's daughters and also the prophet Agabus in the NT and for all those prophets in 1Cor 14 where when they meet together "each one has a revelation".

it is also true of a number of OT prophets such as Nathan.

Just as Hulda in the OT and Deborah in the OT and Nathan in the OT and Agabus in the NT and all those in 1Cor 14 where when they met to worship "each one had a revelation" -- not "just the men".

Er...umm... "what"!!!?? Are you quoting you and getting lost thinking that you are scripture - or did you think you were quoting the bible just then?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Anna was a prophetess, not a prophet. Wrong gender Bob. She was also a Jew. Philip's daughters prophesied. They were Jews also. They were inspired by God therefore they could not be in error. Prophetesses are extremely rare and just as the church WAS (Bob this means it's a past tense) built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Himself being the chief cornerstone. No more prophets, apostles or Prophetesses. We no longer have any of these offices and even when we did there were false Prophetesses like Jezebel and today like EGW and her apostle BR. Obviously church order had changed since Philip's daughters prophesied and 1 Corinthians was written. No where in the new covenant are we told there are to be Prophetesses, it simply says they were virgins and they prophesied. EGW was not a Jew, didn't live during the old covenant, but her and BR want us to submit to all of there many man-made, oops, woman-made rules that twist even the law.

Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

 

All true.

True.

Kind of reminds me of this list.

http://stronginfaith.org/article.php?page=90

True. However the way that you know that they are of God is by first testing their messages claimed to come from God to see if those messages agree with or contradict Bible doctrine.

In 1Cor 12 we are told that the Holy Spirit gives these gifts as He wills. We are never told that " after the death of John the Holy Spirit cannot do that any more".

In fact in Eph 4:11-13 we are told that these gifts continue until the 2nd coming.

The Bible itself defines a prophet as one to whom God communicates via dream or vision Numbers 12:6

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream."

But Apostle is defined as we see in Acts 1

21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— 22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.


And so - with the one exception of Paul - the qualifications of Apostle are clearly limited to the first century by definition as given by Peter.

In the dark ages it was common to refer to someone that you did not like as "the devil" and one next to him as "the devil's apostle".

Most of us are past that sort of emotional appeal to name calling at this point. But all have free will and so if some choose to remain - so beit.

In 1Cor 12 - a number of gifts are listed. The only one that the Bible defines in such a way that it cannot exist beyond the first century is the Acts 1 definition given for Apostle. None of the others has such a limit.

Hence in 1John 4:1-4 John does NOT say that the test of a prophet is "what century do you live in".

in 1John 4:1-4 John does NOT say that the test of a prophet is "is your name John?".

All such man-made inventions fail the test of actual scripture.

I prefer the sola scriptura doctrines that do stand up to the test of scripture - over just making stuff up.

Not one word in 1Cor 12 limiting prophecy to "jews".

Jer 31:31-33 provides the New Covenant as quoted in Hebrews 8 -- not one word in it about ever placing a limit on the existence or gift of prophecy.

"Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you prophesy" 1Cor 14:1 does not ADD "IF and only IF you are a Jew" as some have imagined.

Nor does it add "JUST until John dies" as some have imagined.

1Thess 5:19-20 tells the church specifically NOT to invent stuff - to make stuff up so as to reject prophetic messages.

Isaiah 30:8-11 says that when God's people turn to rebellion one sure sign of it is that they reject His prophets and ask for no more messages from God via His prophets.

Now go, write it on a tablet before them
And inscribe it on a scroll,
That it may serve in the time to come
As a witness forever.
9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the Lord;
10 Who say to the seers, “You must not see visions”;
And to the prophets, “You must not prophesy to us what is right,
Speak to us pleasant words, Prophesy illusions.


They want to hear "you are just fine the way you are - no prophets needed"

in Christ,

Bob

 

Offic eof the prophet as ceased, no more prophesying, so what revealtions did Ellen White have that came from God?

What specific one regarding doctrine/practices did God give her for the church?

ZERO

 

Not according to 1Cor 14:1.

Not according to 1Cor 12.

Not according to Joel 2.

Not according to 1Thess 5:19-20.

Not according to 1John 4:1-5.

Not according to Eph 4:11-14

So why then should we adopt the rebellion of the Jews in Isaiah 30:8-11 and reject the work of the Holy Spirit??

Seems to be no point to such rebellion.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I couldn't help but notice that Bobryan stayed away from answering this one.