Elmer Towns on Caner

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., May 9, 2010.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Elmer Towns speaks on the Caner situation:

    What's revealing about this whole thing is that Towns and Liberty find themselves indebted to Caner who is responsible for who knows how many young people enrolling in Liberty courses and paying mucho denaro for tuition. Jerry Falwell took a fork in the road a long time ago, and this is the result. The ends justify the means.

    But kudos to Caner who has heretofore brilliantly marketed his earstwhile small connection to Islam, especially after 911.

    Reference: http://apprising.org/2010/05/06/liberty-university-directors-support-ergun-caner-amid-charges/
     
  2. swaimj

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    J.D., this seems like a bold statement from Townes. Specifically, why do you disagree with it? What argument from the bloggers do you feel WOULD stand up in court?
     
  3. Shortandy

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    I agree with the OP. Just follow the money:thumbs:
     
  4. gb93433

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    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/mayweb-only/28-11.0.html


    Foes want Caner to admit to what they label as exaggerations and lies, including claims such as:

    • Growing up in Turkey, when he actually grew up in Ohio.
    • Being raised in a devout Muslim home, rather than a nominal one.
    • Having been involved in Islamic jihad.
    • Having debated dozens of Muslims about the Islamic faith, although there is no video or audio evidence.
     
  5. Crucified in Christ

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    swaimj,

    I will ask you what I would like to ask Dr. Towns: Since when did this become the standard for Christian leadership?
     
  6. swaimj

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    Dr. Townes said it is not a legal issue or a moral issue and that the bloggers arguments would not stand up in court. If the issue is not legal or moral, what is the issue? That is what I am asking those who are attacking Caner.
     
  7. Crucified in Christ

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    swaimj,
    I have not been one of the ones attacking Caner...I have never stated anything negative against him. All I have said is that if there is a problem, I sure hope that it will not blow up in Liberty's face.

    Having stated this, I was very unhappy with Towns' response. He stated that the "bloggers" argument would not stand up in court. My question, that I would like to ask him, is when did this become a defensive standard for Christian leaders. A leader is fine so long as people can't get enough evidence that it could stand up in court. That seems ridiculous to me.

    Lastly, Dr. Towns should have stated that the charges are false (if they are). If you have a Seminary President misleading the public for his own personal gain...it is very much an ethical and moral problem.
     
  8. Rippon

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    Agreed. What Caner has done for 9 and a half years is most certainly an ethical and moral problem i.e. -- sin. It was both sad and ridiculous for Dr.Towns to issue that kind of response.

    And for Towns to say something along the lines of "We (that is Liberty) give him (Caner) theological leverage." is beyond stupid. He probably meant leeway. That is still stupid. Does the Lord allow for wiggle-room like this? Secular institutions like the NEW York Times have canned people for fabricating stories. Yet,Caner, because he is a cash cow for Liberty is given a pass?! That kind of liberty (pun intended) is not granted by the Word of God. It's shameful.
     
  9. J.D.

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    I disagree with everything he said, including the thing about court. If he had obtained employment or signed a contract under false claims, then there definitely would be a court issue. But for me, that is not the issue. I've been out with Caner for a long time, but Towns is the biggest disappointment for me in this affair. I would expect a Church trial to follow, not a cover up with lame justifications.

    I'll never forget the day back in the 80's when our church received a mailing from Falwell stating "why shouldn't fundamentalists have their own university where they can play football", and will we help him build it. My pastor at the time said that if they want to play football, they can go to Alabama (Roll Tide!). He cut off support of Falwell immediately, but I hung on, thinking Falwell had the right idea. But it wasn't long till I saw that Falwell had committed to something that would require him to compromise many of his own convictions. The star of "The Old Time Gospel Hour" became more and more the interested in every new thing to come down the pike that would gather more numbers and dollars.

    And here we have the president, not of the university, or a college of the sciences, but the president of the Theological Seminary of all things, known world-wide for his shallow and shouting theology, and now exposed as a fraud, and the administration turns a blind eye to it. I'm surprised that the secular media has not gotten hold of it yet and made hay out of it.

    And I'm also surprised to see a man of your caliber try to defend his actions. I find especially reprehensible his claims of debating people he never debated. His credibility is shot.
     
    #9 J.D., May 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2010
  10. J.D.

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    Yep, that was dumb to say "leverage", but it's even dumber for a major Christian Universtiy, much hated by the secular media, to cover sin rather than repent of it.
     
  11. Havensdad

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    Thank goodness my school is at least (at last) launching a formal investigation!

    http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/

     
  12. J.D.

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    I'm glad they're doing that. In spite of my general criticisms of Liberty's founder and some of Liberty's methods, I do hope for better things of them.
     
  13. StefanM

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    I'm glad to hear this as well.

    As a Liberty graduate student (not in the seminary), I was concerned for my school because of the lack of an investigation.

    Better late than never, I suppose!
     
  14. Rippon

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    Hmm, some secular newspapers have raised questions largely due to the Christian bloggers who have been demened by Caner,Towns and by Liberty. That's kind of ironic. Brothers and sisters in the Lord have asked him to come clean -- now the world has to force it upon him. And still Ergun has not fessed up. He knows better than anyone how his lies are crashing around him -- but he won't admit anything but some stumbles and scrambled words. He better accept the inevitable and get this mess resolved long before the end of June. Each successive day of delay brings more disgrace.
     
  15. J.D.

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    I noticed how Towns and some other statements I've seen speaks disparingly about "bloggers", much like the big media and politicians do. I thank God for bloggers. Yes, there are lies and rumors spread through blogging, but if it wasn't for bloggers, so much would be allowed to fly under the radar. Remember it was bloggers that exposed Dan Rather's lies about Bush, else history would have recorded the lie as truth.
     
  16. go2church

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    To me it looks like Caner is done. Audios, goodbye, see you later. To launch an investigation and not "find" the lies and inconsistencies would to bring more heat down on Liberty then they have already experienced and they don't want any heat if they didn't first start the fire. Now the question turns to his brother down in Georgia, does some of this rub off on him as well and force him out as president of Truett-McConnell?
     
  17. swaimj

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    OK. This is a reasonable answer to my question. I'm not defending Caner as someone suggested. I understand the issues that have been raised and I hope the truth comes out and that all parties; bloggers, Caner, and LU respond properly to what is true.
     
  18. Rippon

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    The truth has been revealed for quite some time. What is needed is Caner's public confession of the truth --- the complete truth --with contrition. That would include lies he said about certain bloggers including Mo Khan,Debby Kaufman and her pastor Wade Burleson among others.

    If Caner's confession is handled in a private manner the truth will not be properly served. He needs to make a clean sweep of it. And Liberty had better not (keeping the metaphor) try to sweep it under the rug. That would be crazy at this stage. Not just the Church, but the world is watching -- in particular Muslims who want to see if a prominent professing Christian leader really believes what he proclaims elsewhere.

    The longer this is played out the worse it will be for Caner and Liberty. While his "investigation" is being carried out he better not be allowed to minister in any churches -- if he attempts to and someone puts it on Youtube he'll have even more "slips of the tongue" to keep track of and account for.

    We'll see how the Lord deals with Caner.
     
  19. TomVols

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    We are assuming the investigation will naturally lead to Caner's resignation/dismissal. There are other options. A censure or exoneration could occur and Caner could keep his position and LBTS keep their guy. I pray that God will be glorified and that this sorry mess can be put to bed. LBTS has way too much at stake to be harmed by something as potentially destructive as this.
     
  20. Crucified in Christ

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    Tom,
    I agree with your point about censure, but Towns already stated that an investigation had exonerated Caner. It seems that the University leadership feels that the story continues to get bigger or they would not go to this extent.

    I will say this: I believe that Jerry Falwell Jr. is committed to seeing Liberty continue to expand in size and influence. If an investigation confirms the pattern that others are claiming, I doubt he will allow Liberty to be endangered in order to protect one individual.
     

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