EPH 2:1 Quickeneth

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ray Marshall, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall
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    As EPhesiams 2,1 says: And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sin. My question will be in John 5, 21.For as the father raiseth up the dead, and quicheneth them; even so the SON quicheneth whom he will.
    Please explain what that verse means without chasing a Rabbit, but get to the point.
     
  2. RAdam

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    Ephesians 2:1, Paul is saying that we were dead in sins, dead spiritually, and that God came to us in the new birth and quickened us, or made us alive.

    John 5:21, Christ is pointing out His equality with the Father.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    It means he gives them spiritual life.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    Just read the Greek text (I always go there first since that is what GOD wrote and not a translator). There is no word "quickeneth" or make alive or any such.

    Simply not in that verse.

    Sorry I cannot help from that passage, but elsewhere the truth of the regenerating work of God is evident. God makes dead alive. God changes the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

    Salvation is of the Lord
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Dr. Bob is correct about Ephesians 2:1. However Ephesians 2:4, 5 present the same truth without added words. That truth is that God makes those who are spiritually dead in sin spiritually alive, that is regenerates them, and that through no action on their part. The regenerated person is then given the gift of faith by which they respond to the Gospel.
     
  6. swaimj

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    So the text in Ephesians doesn't say any of this, yet you are able to derive these conclusions from it anyway.
     
  7. TomMann

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    Even without the word quickened in verse one..... the fact remains that in verse five, someone who was dead in sin was quickened.

    Perhaps to avoid the "vs 1 added word" the question could have been asked...

    As Ephesians 2:4-5 says: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    My question will be in John 5, 21.For as the father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the SON quickeneth whom he will.
    Please explain what that verse means.

    I'll leave the part out about chasing the rabbit.
     
  8. RAdam

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    I despise the argument: "that word wasn't in the greek." If you don't trust the english bible enough, quit using it and go totally to the greek.
     
  9. HankD

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    Dear RAdam, the KJV tarnslators themsleves didn't completely trust their own work as the Church of England spent two hundred years correcting the 1611 English text.

    While I agree that we need to go to the Greek and Hebrew (those of us who have been blessed with that ability through education), as teachers (those of us who are) it is necessary for us to use both for the benefit of those whom God has entrusted to our care who probably don't have that ability.

    And we will answer for the quality of our teaching and the exercise of that priviledge afforded us by God to feed His sheep.

    "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required"

    NKJV James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.


    HankD​
     
  10. OldRegular

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    Ephesians 2:4, 5 tells us that God makes those who are spiritually dead in sin spiritually alive, that is regenerates them, and that through no action on their part. The regenerated person is then given the gift of faith by which they respond to the Gospel.
     
  11. RAdam

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    Again, do you not trust the english bible? If not, put the thing down and go exclusively to the greek.
     
  12. swaimj

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    It does no such thing. You are reading your theology into the text.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    You obviously cannot read. You may not agree with what this passage states. you certainly have the freedom to be wrong. However, don't misrepresent what the words say. That is dishonest.
     
  14. swaimj

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    It is you who are misrepresenting the words, Old Regular. That is dishonest.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    Just read the Scripture. I used the NKJV because you apparently don't know what quicken means. Then you can be dishonest and deny what it clearly states all you want but you are still sadly wrong.

    Ephesians 2:4-6 NKJV
    4. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which he loved us,
    5. even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6. and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

    Obviously Paul is not talking about those who are physically dead he is talking about those who are spiritually dead in sin. God takes the initiative and makes those spiritually alive. That is called regeneration. This passage shows that salvation is solely the work of God. Those who deny otherwise are spiritually unlearned.
     
  16. webdog

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    How? Alive together with Christ. How does this happen? Faith. Pretty simple.
     
  17. BaptistBob

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    Believe me, a study of the Jewish and Gentile uses of the terminology (i.e., "death" and "life"), not to mention the Pauline and other biblical uses (e.g., Romans 6. Colossians 2 and the prodigal son story, to name just a few), will not support your perspective. There's nothing in Eph 2 that makes your case. That combined with almost identical language in Col. 2:13 being preceded by the "through your faith in the power of God" of 2:12, make death something that was dealt with by prior faith, resulting in being raised to new life ("circumcision done by Christ").

    Romans 5:5 However, to the man who.... trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
     
    #17 BaptistBob, Jul 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2009
  18. RAdam

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    Bob, what was I trying to say theologically here? My point was simply this - the idea that we should ignore a word that didn't appear in the greek but in the english is wrong. Either one trusts the english bible or one doesn't, and if one doesn't he should put it down and go exclusively to the greek.
     
  19. Allan

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    Anyone who has actaully studied for themselves (and not just what someone tells them to) would know very quickly that translations from one language to the next do not always translate exactly.

    Take the term 'you' for instance. In the English language it can be difficult to know when it is speaking in the singular or the plural because the same word conveys both.

    Example: When Jesus told Peter that Satan has asked for 'you', and then stated but I have prayed for 'you'.

    From the english it appears that Satan asked to have Peter to sift as wheat, yet in the Greek it is understood that Satan asked for all the disciples (you plural), but Jesus prayed for specifically for Peter (you - singular) that when he came back he would restore his brethren.

    That was just a simple example but the list can go on. To assume or presume that if the English isn't good enough then throw your bible away, I have found, is pretty much a statement from ignorance.
     
  20. RAdam

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    Well, some bibles cover that particular problem Allan.

    Look, if I can't read my bible and gain a good understanding of it in the language it was written, then that translation is worthless. The whole point of an english translation is for the english speaking people to be able to read it. If I must (and I stress must) go to the greek or hebrew to have a decent understanding of a verse, then why not just go totally to the greek and hebrew. Why use an english bible if it doesn't do its job?

    I'm not blasting going to the greek or hebrew for further information or further englightenment on a particular text. Going to look up what a particular word means, for instance, can be very helpful. However, if I can't at least mostly understand the english without this, then my english bible is really not useful at all. In other words, if your strong's concordance, greek lexicon, bible commentaries, bible dictionaries, greek and hebrew scriptures, etc were all taken from you tonight and all you were left with was an english bible of your preference, do you believe you'd be able to understand that bible? That was the whole point of translating the bible - so the poor common man could have it. That same poor common man that doens't know greek or hebrew, doesn't have access to those copies, didn't have a greek/hebrew concorance or lexicon, or any other study aids - that man was whom the translators like Tyndale worked on behalf.
     

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