Estimates on KJVonly Churches

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

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    I have estimated that here in the North (legacy of the Northern Baptist Convention and the thousands of churches) probably 1 in 5 of the IFB Indepedent Fundamental Baptists would be mixed up to a degree in the only sect. Mostly through the pastors.

    But wondering about SBC? Free will? GARBC? NTA? FBF? And southern IFB who withdrew over the past 60 years from the convention? Anyone have an educated guess?
     
  2. Scott J

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    8 independent churches within 1 hour of my home.

    Two KJV preferred, strongly. One unaffiliated, one BBFI.

    3 not KJVO but use the KJV as main text. One BBFI, two GARBC.

    3 KJVO, one of the Riplinger camp. Two BBFI, one recently left SBC
     
  3. gb93433

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    Dr. Bob, are those northern IFB churches growing or dying in terms of reaching others and discipling them?
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    Only anecdotal evidence here, but my take on the prevailing thought among SBCer's in my area is not KJVO. There are those that use the KJV as a preference, but don't have theological objections. Many of those that do object do so based only upon tradition. (If it's good enough for the Apostle Paul, it's good enough for me!) I know of no other pastor within my association that is in any way KJVO, although a few prefer it.
     
  5. Bluefalcon

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    The majority of SBC pastors I know use the NASB, perhaps because it's the preferred version among the SBC's seminary professors (at least among all that I know), and also because the Lockman Foundation gives a free genuine leather NASB to every SBC seminarian upon graduation.

    Yours,

    Bluefalcon
     
  6. Phillip

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    I do not know of any SBC churches that are KJVo. We are in part of the Bible belt and most pastors I know (except one or two) are very conservative. I have never even heard of the KJVo theory until I saw it on this site.

    I picked up a book at the Lifeway store in Tulsa and read it. (One of the pro-KJVo) books---right next to the anti-KJVo books. Read it, considered it about a week. Stuck it on the shelf (will not give it to someone unless it is someone well grounded in doctrine).

    Figured it was just a passing fad, along with a book I picked up that was about Revelations and the author had determined heaven was on Saturn.

    The church I now attend is a small church, lots of older folks. We had a class about Bible translations (just basics) and nobody had any problem with translations, some preferred their KJV, some preferred their NIV. All good Christians. (according to most folks around here.)

    There are only about 31,000 in our county and there are probably over 30 SBC churches, most small, one First Baptist in the county seat (about 700). I don't know of any that are. [​IMG]
     
  7. BruceB

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    I can speak to two SBC churches (the one I attend) and the one we have attended while visting my daughter in the past year. My own church uses the KJV as the pew Bible, but our preacher (who has just retired) has always preached from several different translations (RSV being one of his favorites) and it seems that most everyone in Church and Sunday School carries their own preference. Some of the men in my age group (mid to late 40's) carry the NKJV, I see some of the older ladies carrying the Living Bible. My daughter attends a SBC church in Columbia SC while away in college at USC. Her church used the NASB the last time we visited her. Their pastor preached from it and they used projection screens overhead so you could read along with him in case you didn't have the same version. BruceB
     
  8. rsr

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    Philip said:

    That's pretty much my experience. I was introduced to the controversy as a youngster by a cousin who was an IFB preacher (this was at the time of the release of "Good News for Modern Man") but have seldom encountered it in the flesh. There probably are some SBC churches that are KJVO (after all, you're likely to find practically anything in a group that large), but I know of no instances.

    My RSV, ASV and Phillips NT all came from Baptist Book Stores.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Most are doing well. Holding their own as far as growth/outreach.

    In the 30-40-50's many of the Northern Baptists who were fundamental left the convention and many joined with other national groups - General Assoc of Regular Baptists, Conservative Baptists, New Testament Association of Baptists.

    And many who joined those groups have since left and become totally independent. Hundreds of new works have been started with NO ties to the old convention per se but started from groups/men that had left the convention.
     
  10. Phillip

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    Dr. Bob, I know this is off-track, but since you brought it up, could you explain the relation of your church (I believe IFB) and the Northern Baptists?
    I thought most of the Northern Baptists were somewhat less conservative than the SBC has become?
    Are you a fundamentalist break-away?

    Is the Northern Baptists that you mention the same as the group that was left when the SBC and Northern split, partially over the slave issue?

    I know this isn't the thread, but I would just like to know how these fit together. My life has been SBC and outside of being around local Freewills, Missionary and Landmark, I am not much familiar with the other larger Baptist groups (probably because we are so far south).
     
  11. Plain Old Bill

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    Out here in Washington there seems to be a large number of KJVO IFB churches mostly in the Pudget Sound area.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Northern Baptists were in local/region/state groups after 1845 (you were right on split over slavery). They did work together for missions.

    By 1880-90 liberal/modernism had a deep hold in the meetings of some. In 1907 (or thereabouts) the local groups organized into a stronger national group call the Northern Baptists.

    Problem: liberals so in control that the fundamentalists ideas/agenda were losing. So Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of all fundamental Northern Baptists would meet in a "pre-convention" to map strategy, get guys elected, etc.

    In 1922 the whole thing failed and the NBC decided to eliminate all "doctrine" and just use "the bible as our doctrinal statement" (passed 1200-600 so FBF knew their movement was dead). Allowed the liberals to interpret it anywhich way. SBC saw the problem and adopted a doctrinal statement.

    So thousands (literally) of NBC churches began to withdraw from state convention - or in the case of Minnesota, change the charter of the state convention to a fundamentalist position.

    In reality, the GARB (started in 30's) and the CBA (started in 40's) did not leave the Convention; the Convention left them!

    Now those churches have since organized state associations and started churches that have NO HISTORY at all in the NBC. But from the same roots.

    Today there are about 100 ifb churches in Wisconsin (where I pastored 1970-84) and about 100 in Minnesota (my home and where I taught at Pillsbury BBC owned by the state ifb convention). Individual churches may have ties with a national group, but most do not. The CBA and GARBC both have state groups, as does the BBFI (southern type ifb that have no roots in the north).

    Hope this helps
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    My home church (I am a missionary) is Liberty Baptist of Casper.

    In 1957 there was one ABC (American Baptist, the Northern Baptist Convention changed its name) in Casper. Period. Ed Nelson and John Weidenaar of CBA in Colorado put an ad in the paper that a NEW Baptist church was starting. All of the deacons left the old ABC 1st Baptist, and it ended that THREE new CBA churches were established, each with more than 100 members in the three parts of town!

    The SBC also came to Wyoming and started a church in Casper.

    Sadly, in 1970's one of those good churches (now withdrawn from the CBA since the CBA went openly new evangelical) was "hijacked" by the hyles/roloff BBF mentality. Pastor dictator, turn away unsaved women at the door if wearing slacks - everything BAD about fundamentalism was embodied there.

    So 1/3 of the church, unable to vote to change, left and formed Liberty Baptist 26 years ago. Totally independent. Wife's family was part of that.

    We have also had a GARBC mission church start and fold twice, 10 more SBC churches in Casper, and then 3 different looney-tune kjvo BBFI types that came in "because there is no good Gospel preaching church in Casper". Some people thrive under dictatorship I guess.

    Thankfully, the church from which Liberty withdrew has shifted thinking and has a great pastor who is cooperating in inter-church camp, picnics, revivals, etc. And one of the looney-tune's pastors just left and the church is dropping so fast we pray it will soon close.

    More than you wanted to know, but shedding light. And only a little bias.
     
  14. RaptureReady

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    Sounds to me that they got there eyes open. Did you ever see someone turn away a person for what they wore? BTW, hyles/roloff were faithful men of God who did a great work for the Lord. Just ask anyone who was in the roloff homes. My church has some of the girls from the roloff homes come in and give testimonies of what God has done for them, and for you to belittle roloff's ministry is un-Christ like, may God forgive you.
     
  15. Scott J

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    Dangerous to leave this as a hanging generalization. The BBFI wasn't started KJVO and isn't that way as an organization now.

    The authority of the pastor is greater than I was previously used to but doesn't always rise to the level of dictatorship. In fact, I know one church that is more deacon led.
     
  16. Scott J

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    Really? On account of what scripture were their eyes opened? Thus saith RaptureReady I suppose?

    One of our deacons turned a man away one time for trying to enter our church in bermuda shorts. He was on vacation and didn't have anything else with him. If he was lost and went to hell, do you think the deacon did the right thing?
    Hyles probably did more harm than good after he lost Rice's influence. He pushed easy believism and had significant moral failures, not just the adultery but pride also.
     
  17. Trotter

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    Thus far, I have visited no SBC church in my county that has been KJVO (and we are currently making the rounds, looking for a new church home).

    I know of two definate KJVO Baptist churches around here, and have heard of several more. One of the two is moderate in size (100-150), the other is small. Thankfully, the others that I have heard about are small as well.

    There is one out near my parents that I am not sure about. It is independant, and has a school (K-12). I know that they heavily encourage women to wear skirts and dresses (all the time, not just at church), and are really heavy into legalism. I figure it is KJVO, but I have no desire to darken the threshhold of such a place!

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     

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