Eternal Life

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Martin, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. Martin

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    What is "eternal life"?

    People define eternal life in different ways. Sadly most people think of "forever life" when they think of "eternal life". While it is true that "eternal life" is a form of "forever life" the two are not the same thing. Those who are cast into the lake of fire will live forever in punishment (Matt 25:46). So they do have "forever life".

    So what is eternal life? Certainly eternal life is life that lasts forever, but it is much more than that. Eternal life, simply put, is having a relationship with God. This is how the Lord Jesus Himself defined "eternal life".

    "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" -Jn 17:3

    This life is given by God to those who come to Christ in faith (Jn 3:16). It cannot be earned (Rom 4:4-5) because it is a free gift (Eph 2:8-9).

    So, do you have eternal life? Or better yet let's put it this way...do you have a relationship with God?

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  2. TaterTot

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    it bothers me when people say that eternal life begins when we die
     
  3. Ron Arndt

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    Eternal life in the bible refers to longevity of living, but also means a spiritual life with God himself. For those who are in darkness have no life in them. Yet they posses natural life. One can be naturally alive, but spiritually dead. When one is IN Christ one becomes born AGAIN and so possess spiritual life which is ETERNAL.

    But there also is a second type of eternal life and that is of duration for soul and body. This will occur at the resurrection. We will be raised with incorruptible bodies and so our bodies will never die. Thus we will be eternal beings in a natural life at that time era.
     
  4. Craigbythesea

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    Most Baptists believe that because we have “eternal life,” we cannot lose our salvation. However, none of the “eternal life” passage in the New Testament were interpreted to mean that until the 16th century, and except for Baptists, Presbyterians, and the charismatic Calvary Chapel movement, most Christian churches have never interpreted the “eternal life” passage in the New Testament to mean that we cannot lose our salvation. Therefore, Martin’s question, ‘What is "eternal life"?’ is a very important question for Baptists to consider. And I agree with his concept that Eternal life is having a relationship with God, and I believe that Martin’s concept is a Biblical concept for the reasons that he gave above, and also because of the words that we find in 1 John 5:10 – 12,

    1 John 5:10. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
    11. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    12. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    These verses, however, and very many other verses in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, raise the question of what happens to a Christian who chooses to abandon his faith in Christ. 1 John 5:12 explicitly states that “God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.” I don’t find much of a promise here for those who were once Christians but who have abandoned their faith and have rejected Christ and His gospel, for, apart from Christ, there is no life—but only death. “He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.”

    (All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. PastorSBC1303

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    If eternal life is not eternal then:

    1. Jesus is a liar as He promised eternal life to His followers.

    2. The Holy Spirit is not very strong. Eph. 1 says that the Holy Spirit seals us in our salvation.
     
  6. Pipedude

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    I suspect that what CBTS is saying is that the life was eternal a long time before you got it and it will still be eternal a long time after you lose it. Being eternal, it has no beginning or ending; but your possession of it does have a beginning and could have an ending.

    Having attempted that little foray into translation, I'm outta here! Y'all play nice, now... [​IMG]
     
  7. EdSutton

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    - Hack! Cough! Wheeze! MEDIC!!!
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    I agree with PastorSBC...

    If we can lose our eternal life which is given to us when we believe and sealed in us by that Holy Spirit of promise, then that makes Jesus a liar and the Holy Spirt weak.

    I serve a Savior who is true to His Word. He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. Nothing I can do will stop Him from loving me. If I stray, He will come looking for me. And like a shepherd, He will chastise me. Then He will carry me back to the fold.
     
  9. Frenchy

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    AMEN SFIC [​IMG]
     
  10. Craigbythesea

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    If your personal and extremely naïve interpretation of what Jesus meant by the expression “eternal life” is incorrect, Jesus is a liar? I hope that you like hot weather! :D

    Jesus is true to HIS word, not YOUR personal, extremely naïve interpretation of it.

    1 John 5:10. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
    11. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    12. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    Those Christians who forsake Christ have not the Son, and “he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.”

    [​IMG]
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    Those who left Christ and never were brought back to His fold never were part of that fold. Many followed Christ during His ministry who did not truly love Him.

    Look it up. He says 'Depart from me, I never knew you' not 'depart from me I knew you once but you messed up.'

    I am so glad that those that are His He will not lose.

    Saved, Secure, Sure for all eternity!
     
  12. Rippon

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    And SFIC , " never knew you " means He never set His love on them . They are not among God's elect . But , on the other hand , there are those which He declared " Come , you who are blessed by my Father ; take your inheritance , the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world . " ( Matthew 25:34 )
     
  13. Craigbythesea

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    1. If your personal interpretation of what Jesus meant by the expression “eternal life” is incorrect, Jesus is a liar? I hope you like hot weather! Jesus is true to HIS word, not YOUR personal interpretation of it.

    1 John 5:10. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
    11. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    12. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    Those Christians who forsake Christ have not the Son, and “he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.”

    2. PastorSBC1303 says, “Eph. 1 says that the Holy Spirit seals us in our salvation.”

    The Bible says,

    Eph. 1:13. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    This verse does NOT say that “the Holy Spirit seals us in our salvation.” This verse says that in Christ we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Is the seal permanent? No, it is not. We are sealed for the day of redemption, but between now and then we can lose that seal.

    The Eph. 4:30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    Eph. 4:30 is probably as allusion to Isa. 63:10 and Psalms 78:40,

    Isa. 63.10. But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.

    Psalms 78:40. How often they rebelled against Him in the wilderness And grieved Him in the desert!

    Paul here warns Christians not to grieve the Holy Spirit with which they were sealed for the day of redemption because grieving the Holy Spirit leads to God to being our enemy rather than our friend and savior. And for those who choose to mock God and say, “Yeah, that was in the Old Testament and it does not apply to us,” Paul wrote,

    1 Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
    2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
    4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
    5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
    6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
    7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
    8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
    9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
    10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
    11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
    12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.


    (All Scriptures NASB, 1995)
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG]
     
  14. MRCoon

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    Funny how you state 'Jesus is true to HIS word, not YOUR personal interpretation of it.' And then you give us your personal interpretation.

    How can you truly accept and then reject a gift? Either first you reject it or accept...Can you accept a gift from someone at your birthday party and then give it back? Was it truly your gift to accept and reject? Or did you never truly accept it because you saw it for some value instead of a gift...oh you may have gone through the act of accepting it but you never accepted it completely. I don't see anything in the Bible that says you can accept Christ and be saved then reject Christ and be unsaved. If one truly accepted Christ then one would never reject Christ...oh you may deny Him (as Peter) and you may fall out of step with God's plan (as Abraham) but you will never reject it if you truly accepted it.

    I think you wrongly apply the NT and OT. Orthodox Jews have easily combined the two to make it say that Jesus was not the Messiah and to belittle His death on the cross. Anyways, back to your comment on Eph 1. How do you say that in verse 13 when the Bible says ...in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. I clearly understand the Bible says that we are sealed by the holy spirit and that it is an 'earnest' {1. Money paid in advance as part payment to bind a contract or bargain.
    2. A token of something to come; a promise or an assurance.} So I would say that this is a promise...that is later described as our Blessed Hope.


    For future reference please let's use all the scriptures instead of picking them out individually and using them to our own purpose. By reading the surrounding verses in Eph 1 there is much more there that can confirm what the purpose of this seal is. Also by understanding the purpose of the Holy Spirit we get a different outlook that shows his 'mission' started after Jesus' ministry. First God showed himself in the OT to Moses, Prophets, and such. Then Christ Jesus had a earthly ministry that showed his salvation and Godhead. And the Holy Spirit (or Comforter) began His ministry after Jesus was transfigured. Of course they intermingled since they are the Triune but they had specific and seperate 'missions' as well.

    Best of all, I'm grateful that God sent His son, Jesus willingly paid the price, and the Holy Spirit is the seal that keeps me.

    That has been my 2 yen [​IMG] Keep the change [​IMG]
     
  15. MRCoon

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    I don't see that it says 'He never set His love on them' John 3:16 says God loved the world...not loved part of it...not some of it...the world sounds pretty inclusive to me. But this is just one verse..many more verses identify this love for all. Clearly, looking at the whole text and understanding that Jesus was talking about those who claimed to be followers of Him and yet Jesus failed to recognize them because they were false followers (which I believe is how SFIC was implying the verse). And the verses around Matt 25:34 simply refer to the Shepherd seperating the 'sheep from the goats' and telling the sheep to enter into or inherit (joint heirs with Jesus) the Kingdom that has been prepared since the 'foundation of the world'. Are the 'sheep' his true followers and the 'goats' the pretend followers? I don't know enough about how goats or sheep look to know if they appear the same at first glance or not...to me a city boy I'd say they look the same but I would not want to imply that this is Jesus' meaning. But there is more to understanding than the reading of just a lone verse [​IMG]
     
  16. Ron Arndt

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    Paul plainly wrote that Jesus is the Savior of ALL men(the world), especially to them that believe(Christians)I Tim 4:10

    My friend, Jesus came to save sinners. How many sinners are in this world? Just the elect? The bible says "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Who will you believe? Paul the Apostle or John Calvin?
     
  17. Helen

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    "I never knew you" is in the context of those who claim to be Christians and say they have 'cast out demons' etc. Jesus is denying their claim. This, in turn, is in the context of the false teachers in the preceding verses who have the hearts of ravenous wolves but are dressed in the clothing of shepherds (sheep's clothing -- wool). Thus, this verse has nothing to do with Rippon's interpretation as he has ripped it out of context. It has to do with false teachers who claim to be Christians. First, you may know them by the fruits their teachings produce and, second, Christ will deny their claim as far as being one of His.
     
  18. PastorSBC1303

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    Funny how when things are stated that go against Craig, it is "our" personal interpretation. Then he proceeds to give "his" personal interpretation.

    Oh well, I am not going to argue with him about it. If he wants to believe he can lose his salvation that is fine by me.

    I will stick with the Eternal life that Jesus promised.
     
  19. MRCoon

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    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Seems pretty clear cut to this Jarhead. ;) And we aren't often accused of being too smart [​IMG]
     
  20. Craigbythesea

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    I don’t see that there is anything funny about it at all. Others have posted over and over again that if the doctrine of eternal security is not a true doctrine, then Jesus is a liar. My point is simply that Jesus is not a liar and having a different interpretation of His words than that which is held by the majority of Baptists does not make Jesus a liar. Of course we are both interpreting the words that Jesus said, but the evidence in favor of my interpretation is vast and solid, and the evidence for your interpretation is meager and very shaky.

    As I have posted in several threads, with documentation and detailed arguments, the doctrine of eternal security is a bi-product of a 16th century view of the sovereignty of God rather than the consequence of an exegetical analysis of the Greek text of the New Testament. This much is a matter of historical record. It is also a matter of historical record that ever since the doctrine of eternal security was first concocted in the 16th century the large majority of the church has always maintained that the doctrine of eternal security is a false and very dangerous doctrine. It is also a matter of historical record that the Greek grammars most often cited to defend the doctrine of eternal security (against the fact their interpretation of the eternal security “proof texts” contradicts basic principles of Greek grammar) were all written by Baptists, namely A. T. Robertson, H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey, and Daniel B. Wallace. It is also a matter of historical record that two of the most commonly used arguments in favor of the doctrine of eternal security among Baptist lay persons,

    1. Christians have been given eternal life and because it is eternal it cannot be lost

    2. Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit and this seal is necessarily permanent

    are not defensible and are NOT used for that reason by the most competent scholars who advocate for that doctrine, but they are very widely used by Baptist preachers and lay persons who lack a solid university and seminary education.

    If you want to defend the doctrine of eternal security, I suggest that you study the origin of that doctrine and the theological principles upon which it was based and upon which it is defended today by those who are competent to defend it.

    [​IMG]
     

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