Eternal or kingdom Salvation Mt. 24:13

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JohnBaskette, Jun 30, 2007.

  1. JohnBaskette

    JohnBaskette
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    “Mt 24:13 (KJV) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

    This is Kingdom Salvation & not Eternal Salvation.

    There are two reasons why:
    1] Jesus was speaking to His disciples, evidenced in Mathew 24:3 “Mt 24:3 (KJV) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” DICIPLES OBVIOUSLY ALREADY SAVED ETERNALLY!

    2] Eternal Salvation was purchased by Jesus’ shed blood ONLY! NOT Jesus’ shed blood PLUS “endure unto the end” or anything else. (If you are saved you know this.)

    Many other versus indicate KINGDOM SALVATION! I’d love to discuss any scripture that you think refutes The Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ ON EARTH WHEN HE RETURNS THE SECOND TIME AS JUDGE & KING!

    In Christ;
    John Baskette [email protected]
     
  2. npetreley

    npetreley
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    I love this doctrine because it satisfies my fleshly need to think I've added something to my own salvation. If I can't save myself eternally through works, at least I can convince myself that I can save myself into the kingdom through works.
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

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    Jesus never teaching 'kingdom', itself speaks of millennium, because he never saying it shall be last for 1000 years.

    Yes, Matt. 24:13 is very clearly speak of salvation, according our conditional life. It is clear warn us, if we do not be endured(steadfast or faithful) till the end(at our death), then, we shall not be saved, the consquence will be go to everlasting punishment.

    There are many passages in the Bible mentioned on conditional with warnings. We cannot neglect them, we must take heed and obey them, or we would face serious consquence at the Judgment Day, and our future eternality destiny.

    Next week, I will discuss more on passages in the Bible on salvation issue.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Amen, John!

    Otherwise, we're saved eternally by our works.

    BTW, be prepared to be labelled a heretic.
     
  5. Grasshopper

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    Gill:

    the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan (u), and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

    (u)
    Euseb. Eccl. Hist. l. 3. c. 5.
     
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Well, Gill was doing just fine until he started teaching this works-based everlasting salvation of perseverence. Then he talks about "true believers" in Christ. I guess the ones who are really and truly saved, which so many talk about, but cannot find in the Bible.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The Bible makes no distinction between kingdom salvation and eternal salvation. This is a doctrine that has no place among those who believe the Bible.
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    Amen Pastor Larry.
     
  9. webdog

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    I second that.
     
  10. canadyjd

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    Judas was still among His disciples. Was Judas "OBVIOUSLY ALREADY SAVED ETERNALLY!"?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  11. James_Newman

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    Well I believe the bible. I believe the bible says that if I believe on Christ, I'll be raised up on the last day. I also believe the bible says that if I deny Christ, He will deny me. Someone who thinks one can't believe and deny at the same time need only look to Peter.
     
  12. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Did Jesus give the power to heal and cast out demons to an unsaved person? Can Satan cast out Satan?
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    I find this to be a thought provoking question for two reasons: 1. Was Judas truly saved and then lost his salvation? 2. Was he a pretender and false believer to whom Jesus gave REAL power to cast out demons?

    But then I find Jesus in his high priestly prayer, praying for those given to him by the Father and that he has kept them, except Judas, the son of perdition, so that Scripture would be fulfilled (John 17:6-12).
     
  14. canadyjd

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    Yes, He did. Being unsaved and having Satan are two different things. Satan did not enter Judas until the Last Supper (John 13:27)

    I believe the disciples were saved just like everyone else this side of the resurrection, when they received Holy Spirit. That is when they were transformed into a new creation. No longer did they fear what men could do. After they received Holy Spirit, they boldly proclaimed the gospel in spite of real persecution, not just threats.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  15. Allan

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    Jesus does say in Mat 7 - that MANY shall come to Him in that day (Judgment) and say "...did we not prophesy in your name", "did we not CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME", "did we not work supernatural signs in your name". And He will say to them "Depart from Me for I NEVER (not having ever) knew you.

    Casting out demons, preaching, doing supernatural signs are not distinguishing factors to be used as valadating whether a person is a believer.

    Good works do not secure our place in the Kingdom.
    Good works show that we are already Children of the Kingdom.
    The security of our Kingdom position is assured IN Christ Jesus as we are ALREADY seated with Christ in the Heavenlies, BEING heirs (His Children) and Joint-heirs...

    Our position is already set forth IN Christ due TO Christ. Therefore since we are heirs and joint-heirs, this can only apply to one thing regarding our Joint-heirship which is we are already OF and In His Kingdom. Our place in the Kingdom IS ALREADY established.
     
    #15 Allan, Jun 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2007
  16. canadyjd

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    Well said Allan:applause:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  17. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Well, he obviously was saved, and he obviously lost something, but did he (or can he) lose his everlasting salvation?

    Did he perish?

    What does it mean to perish?
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    Why was Judas "obviously saved"?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  19. TCGreek

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    Whether Judas was truly saved or not, is not settled on what a word means. It is settled on one's soteriology.

    For example, Jesus refers to him as "the son of perdition." "Perdition" is the Gk. apoleia (18x in NT). It shares the same semantic domain as apollumi (90x in NT), which is often translated "to destroy, to perish."

    Paul seems to think that there are only to types of people in respect to the cross: 1. Those who are perishing. 2. Those who are being saved. "Perishing" is the Gk. apollumenois, pres.ptc of apollumi. And to those who are perishing, the cross of Christ is foolishness. No one who has the Spirit of Christ refers to him as anathema (1 Cor 12:3).

    Besides Paul says that the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who are perishing (apollumenois, pres.ptc of apollumi).

    This perishing refers to souls of individual and not their rewards. I gave that word study to say that the issue of Judas is not resolved on word study. Rather it is resolved, hopefully, by one's soteriology.
     
  20. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    So, did Jesus give unsaved people (those who are not in the family) the power to heal and to cast out demons?

    Since Jesus said that Satan cannot cast out Satan, did he err and mean to say, "Satan usually cannot cast out Satan"?

    What does it mean to perish? How does one who doesn't have a life lose it?

    What is "saved"?

    The salvation of the soul is rewards. It's the saving of the life of the individual.

    The saving of the spirit is what puts him into a position to receive (or not) rewards.

    An person not in the family is not eligible for an inheritance at all.
     

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